Guys, Andrew was right in this article, he had good suggestions.
Please take away the ‘fan’ attitude and do not handle it as a personal attack!
What is the reality?
We both know - thanks to statistical data - that Blender is mainly used by hobby users.
Almost everyone who just wanna have fun or want to begin his journey in 3d, starts with Blender as it has no cost (main reason why people choose Blender).
The reality is that other commercial apps has a cost what have to be earned by their users, which means that they have to learn faster, to make better graphics, to optimize workflows like hell, because they have to earn the price of the updates, the cost of their living by knowing their app as much as it is needed and by creating ‘results’ what could compete with the competitors to get hired.
So yes, overall it means, that you could find more paid artists for commercial apps who make better results then you could do it with Blender.
So whats then?
Easy to answer: do what Andrew suggested, check other sites, check other workflows, ideas and learn. The way Blender could have more pro users is showing its capabilities, implementing useful features from other apps, etc…
In response to Mr. Price I might say that in this world there is an abundance of those who seek to be just like everyone else. The law of averages mentioned in that blog post really only applies to people with a strong focus on what others think of them and their works.
Such people can turn out wonderful pieces of art, however; generally the most notable works of art tend to come from those who strived to find their own style rather than pose as their peers. Many of the works today considered to be great were, in their own time, considered awful and had those artist paid any attention to their critics the world would have suffered the loss of some of its most prized creations.
Don’t get me wrong, I love a good Hollywood movie, but I’d be lying if I said they weren’t virtually all the same movie with different names.
As far as I know, musicians, painters, sculptors, actors and all the artists perform their works to be enjoyed by common people and not for show their works in closed societies/circles.
So I do not know why those who claim to be good artists (or looking to be good artists) do not publish their jobs on sites like this forum to be subjected to criticism of the low average artist who are more similar to the general public than those gurus of art. Even if that criticism is just a “like” or “don’t like”, if it comes from the public (and not other great artists) is something that the artist should be interested. So as some people think that only frequenting Blender forums is not good for the artist, I think it’s also bad for the artist only frequenting these closed circles for great artists.
I think you missed my point. Andrew Price’s blog post suggests people should seek out better artists so they can be more like them. I’m suggesting there’s nothing wrong with being more like yourself.
‘Better’ is a matter of opinion. Hanging out with established artists will not make you a better artist, it might make you a carbon copy of those artists you hang out with if you let it though. That’s fine if that’s what you want, but if you want to break new ground then you’re better off doing your own thing.
There’s nothing wrong with critiques or listening to those critiques, likewise there is nothing wrong with ignoring the critics in favor of something different.
“What sir, would you make a ship sail against the wind and currents by lighting a bonfire under her deck? I pray you excuse me. I have no time to listen to such nonsense.” -Napoleon Bonaparte (response to the idea of the steam engine)
It depends. ‘Real’ artist do art for their own pleasure, not for making it public in any way as it could lead to ‘serving’ their fans.
‘to be subjected to criticism of the low average artist who are more similar to the general public than those gurus of art’
It is easy. They are not like-hunters and they exactly know that the average public has no value as a critic. It is pretty much the same why - as an example - mainstream pop music if for people who never learned music.
I did not talk about serving their fans. But I heard that “for own pleasure” from some artists and writers. I do not believe them at all. Of course it’s for their own pleasure, but the artist is also interested in showing their work to the public. If it’s just for your own pleasure, do not publish your works.
@atr1337, I do not know if you were answering me. I clarify that my message was not an answer to what you said, just I wrote something I was thinking related to the topic
@AlmaTalp: I personally do not subscribe to the notion of real or fake artists. In my opinion, and I may have misinterpreted, Andrew’s article seemed to imply that an artist ‘should’ strive to align himself with the critics and ‘should’ model himself after others.
Myself I feel it’s not that the artist ‘should’ or ‘shouldn’t,’ but that they may or may not. One way is neither right or wrong, both are perfectly acceptable. I think it’s important that aspiring young artists don’t feel pressured to follow the trends and neither feel pressure to go against those trends.
To be honest, a very bad ‘word usage’ what we have related to ‘art’ or ‘artist’, what possibly came from 'applied 'arts.
What I think art is the complete freedom of creating something, not limited by ‘art directors’, clients, trends, etc.
All the other thing serves more people than the artist himself, so it is limited somehow (of course it has nothing to do with quality in technical terms).
Anyway, I only want to say that it is always good to learn things from others, to get out of the comfort zone, but I also agree on ‘trends’ what makes all the ‘art’ the same…
@AlmaTarp:
I tend to be more inclusive with my definition of art in that it’s all really art from the painted canvas to the boring ole PowerPoint presentation.
That’s not to say that the way you or I define it is right or wrong. With invention there are those inventors that break new ground offering the world something never before seen and I am grateful. Likewise there are those innovators who take those inventions and improve upon them and I am grateful.
I had to respond when you mentioned Zbrushcentral, I don’t think even that place is an ideal location if the point is to find out just what you need to do to improve.
Take into account the mission to offer a positive environment for instance, have you seen a single post in the artwork section of that forum that wasn’t just praise without much hint on what can be done to improve? I’ve read some of those larger threads and praise was the only thing I saw.
I don’t like the art posted here and the attitude towards it too, that’s why I stopped posting mine entirely. I just visit the first two subforums for some news.
When you look at how the art has changed over the long term now, the improvement in quality has increased markedly and very well fits just how much better Blender has gotten (especially over the last 5 years). You can at least acknowledge that despite the continued abundance of people new to 3D.
It is kinda funny to see how people get so crazy about this. After all this is Andrew Price a person that always has to list quotes and citations before making an argument. Why I say this? Without it the argument would fell apart and the article would come across short sighted or kinda pointless.
Pointless is what I think about it.
Yes there are better forums to post your work to when you are advanced enough.
However this forum is nearly a must have for beginners to Blender and CG because you get design and technical feedback at once.
Should any serious person that is interested in refining your skill and getting feedback diversify their exposure? Yes! That is kinda common sense and why I feel Andrews post is rather pointless without adding any real constructive part.
This reminds me about the UI concept he did that went down in flames because he obviously spend more time on collecting quotes for making his case instead of really thinking about what Blender lacks and what is feasible to make it better. Fact is Blender does not need an makeover but it needs some order brought into the chaos.
I also comeback and post work because I am part of the community. The community gave me much so now I can give back.
Because some of us would rather not be linked to this community’s reputation. I’m sorry but once a community has members posting images of crying babys next to penises that has the tacit approval of the mods. Well that is kind of a one way stop for lowering the bar of expectations from said community. And ya know. I’m not sure I want people thinking about the above mentioned image when they look at my works.
I don’t give rides to drug addicts.
I don’t fly out of the country with smugglers.
And I don’t post my art in a pool that is soft on kiddy porn.
You know I’ve reproved this image too. But you see how many users has this community, you can not blame the whole community for only a few users. Maybe it’s right that you are angry with moderators. But if you had expressed in that thread to disagree with that image, I think you should not worry about your reputation.
Anyway I think the reason that Andrew Price argues for not frequenting websites related to Blender community is not related to tasteless images, but related with quality. Probably Andrew had only criticized the poor quality of that image, not the child and penis. Talking about tasteless images, apparently Andrew has made a joke posting an image related to Hitler and it apparently did not like some people. I say this in case you do not want your name associated with it either.
But come on this is a community website - how could one criticize the work here. On the other side since Cycles the quality of work is improving a lot. Yes a more pro work orientated website will maybe have a different crowed of users and thus better work. For many new Blender users this forum is also the landing page when learning it.
There was also a time where Andrew himself called GI not so great and then once he realized Cycles will not go away he switched his
tutorial content afterwards. Everybody is obviously entitled to an opinion.
If there is something I would criticize in this community then the reaction to such posts. In my point Andrew is over glorified here. There are many other good websites with tutorials as well - they just don’t ring the PR machine as aggressive.
Honestly I found from a technical standpoint his videos often being quite interesting as he collected data and design ideas and then tried to put them into a format. But I personally cannot take him as a serious designer. I rather respect those who also work in the field with Blender.
There is really a difference between making an instructional video and being creative.
(1) Blender is a digital tool. Nothing more or less. It might be the tool that you use to do truly amazing things. It might, today, be the tool that you use (semi-?)professionally. (It is “that good” now …) Or it might not. If you are “in the business,” it is probably not the only such tool that you use. If you are “in the business,” you are paid to accomplish work and the price that you pay for some of the tools in your arsenal is just a cost of goods sold.
(2) This particular site is a collection of “Blender Artists,” and that’s a big term. Obviously, a lot of people here aren’t locked-up in the grind of movie/TV-production CG. Some people use CG in smaller and more specialized ways; some use it just for fun.
(2a) Yeah, it’s difficult. Much more than it appears. A computer can make a frustrated fool out of anyone, and it regularly does. :spin: We all know that, we’ve all experienced it, and we all still like to use Blender! (And did I mention that “therefore we all must be a little-bit(?) crazy?”)
(3) It never pays to be judgmental, either against other people or against a web site. “Let it go.” Being confrontational or argumentative just isn’t worth your time. Be like the greatartist who taught millions of people to “paint happy little trees” on PBS television. Enjoy what you do, enjoy sharing, and enjoy making other people feel good, too.
part of this forum is responsible for Blender users being a little fan boyish with outrages claims like Blender will kill Maya. But honestly who as a professional cares about this. Often when I teach student want to learn something different like SolidWorks. So each time I explain to them why I do not teach it and what we will do instead. After my explanation they understand and are happy.
Thing is this will always repeat with new users. It is just a given.
However the amount of pro work done with Blender simply outweighs the negative aspect of the forum from medical applications to commercials to 3D printing.
Blender is also more than a modeling rendering tool it is also a design tool and it is my go to sub-d modeler for my work while I also use Alias and Fusion 360.
Part? How many considering the huge number of users? If you see a couple of fanboys writing thousand messages in the same thread, it does not mean that there are thousands of fanboys in the community. I really do not see much of that you say at least in this forum.
And please, when you talk about fan boyish you consider all sides: Blender fanboys, Blender haters (fanboys) and “other non-Blender” software lovers (fanboys). And you remember that this is an exclusive forum for Blender. I really do not understand what is the motivation for some users to come here with an unfriendly attitude and talk against Blender as sometimes happens. I wonder how would react any other softaware community if an user enters to their forum with a bad attitude toward that program.
I’ve seen users from other programs opening threads to talk on what they think about how could be Blender improved. I’ve seen users from other programs asking here about what would be the Blender equivalent for some feature or function. I’ve seen that all those users with a friendly attitude are well received in the forum.
