icons is the next big thing for blender

the concept is simple, adding icons can only enrich the blender experience, an option to turn the icons on and off can be added like most other programs do, so you could have text only, or icons only, or combined text and icons, and this way every body is pleased, also the current icons in blender do need a re make with more modern looking icons

I definitely agree with that vision, but does blender allow you to reach the tools that you need swiftly if you don’t know the shortcuts ?, no

That is not bad idea. Maybe you could invest more time and see if there is anyone willing to create these icons and if there is dev willing to implement that.

I understand the way you are thinking, but from experience and from user feedback I have to disagree. It is far more work then you may think it is and there’s no guaranteed benefit for it.

Blender has currently about 1600 operators, meaning we had to design ~1600 icons. We have a bunch of operators that already have icons, but following the idea of this thread we also had to add icons for menu entries, radio buttons, settings, etc.
Designing a good icon takes some time. The last icons we added (node Auto-offset, incremental grid snapping) took a couple of tries and a couple of days until we found good designs that looked good to everyone (thanks Pawel :slight_smile: ). I’d estimate it takes at least a month to design around 100 icons for one person (full-time work). Who would do such a tiresome and monotone work? And more important, who would pay him? The BF doesn’t even have the money to pay more than 3 full-time devs currently.

After all, it wouldn’t even be guaranteed that ‘icons for everything’ would really benefit users. From a lot of users I heard they don’t find icons useful. I think only a small amount of users would find them useful.

All that said I’m not totally against a more icon oriented UI, but IMHO this should be done by improving and supplementing existing icons.

Yes, it’s called pie menus.

The 3d landscape is changing, soon we’ll all be scanning in 3d data from our phones to be further manipulated in software, many of the tools and workflows from the past will become obsolete. You can’t fight progress or change, it’s inevitable.

A good software is one that lets the creative be creative, not one that ties you down to ageing workflows and bloat. Simplicity is key.

The problem is that software is lagging behind technology, thank goodness for projects like blender that can stand back and objectify the situation without being tied to convention. The blender devs are on the next gen of user interface interaction as we speak. They are taking a year off to do it, how cool is that!

well I don’t have the time really, but there is nothing mysterious in creating such thing, if the makers of blender decided to update the UI, I think they should consider to make the most used tools during modeling more easily reachable and use some more expressive icons, that can be reached using the mouse if the designer prefer to not use keyboard shortcuts

ok that explains a lot,

I think I should highlight the core of the problem that I’m trying to solve which is that the tools when you are modeling are not readily availbel to you to the point where you don’t have to think about them, I always find my self searching among clusters of texts in search of that command that I need, the solution I offer is using icons which help a lot in my openion,

now if there is a better solution then why not

My argument remains from all earlier discussions on this topic: Icons are easier to read than text.
We raed eevry wrod as a sngile smbyol, wihch is why we are fsat at radieng. We don’t read words letter by letter. That is why you can understand what I just wrote. Also - the shorter the word/Symbol, the faster it is to read. That’s why Icons are far superior to text.
Icons also provide readability how text cannot: color coding.
When Icons are used along side text - that improves readability even further.

Another advantage icons provide - A tool shelf can be reduced to icons alone, which hugely saves space.

I am all for tool icons.
If someone convinces the main devs that Icons are a good idea in trunk, I can draw some too.

Blender has a lot of icons, and to be honest, I only read the text. Also, I do not remember every shortcut of Blender, I only remember those who are most important to me. But to me it is easier to remember the name of the tool I want to use, then I use the search feature with the Spacebar. Perhaps we could think the way to make Spacebar function even more powerful. I’d like to be able to see more information about each option listed in the search results, in the same way as when you mouse over some element in menus.

PS: Some users also use Pie menus

I humbly submit that when missing a tool, pressing Space and typing out what you need is much more productive than staring at icons. Memorizing the shortcut that appears on the right is even better.

Icons in blender? no thanks!

I agree with ma2007, icons will be good in Blender, i’m trueSpace user and UI with icons tools is really easy to learn and memorize, in fact the things that will be good for Blender, it’s to have different UI mode , in easy mode you have icons tools it’s UI for beginners and expert mode is like what we have today in Blender, it’s UI for experiment users, of course you save this setting when launching Blender then everybody will be happy beginner or expert users in Blender, it’s just my point of view.

Of course Icons could be better than plain text but only if the icons are really good designed! It is a easy task to create vector graphics, but when it comes to readability of a 16*16px icon things get far more challenging.
That said it is my experience that icons are great for tools you use on a regular basis but not for those I use only from time to time, remembering doesn’t work well in this case. And some very specific tools are just far easier to describe with a few words (like “origin to center of mass”) than with a icon.
Final thoughts: the next big thing for blender is imho the widget thing. The less UI we have (includes icons and text) the better. BTW thanks Julian!

The next big thing is reading 3d data directly from the user’s mind. Until then, well’have to cope with a few limitations: you just can’t have 2600+ operators and make all of them easily and readily available. Some will be right on the screen when you look for them, some will not.

Why are they useless? They help communicate their functions, and also communicate the data types. It makes it clearer that you are dealing a shape key vs a vertex colour slot, for example. Without them, there isn’t much visual distinction between the two. In the constraints, it helps to clarify that you are adding a constraint and not, say, a modifier.

Blender’s UI issues could be helped somewhat with more/better icons, but the issues are more to do with clutter, inconsistency, poorly though out workflows, poor tools system (with half-implemented tool settings system) poor user communication and scattered settings.

I’d love more icons in Blender, I find it much easier to find functions at a glance visually. I always have to read all the text commands if I don’t use a menu so often that muscle memory sets in, and it slows me down a lot. I don’t like to use the toolbar because of it, can’t find stuff quickly.

But that’s just me. Others are more comfortable with text, as I understand from reading the posts. That’s all fine, we’re different, no argument here. Therefore an option to turn them off would be nice.

In desktop environments I use there are options for, say, toolbars: only text, text with icons, only icons. Something for everybody, I always choose the last option. :slight_smile:

But I also see the huge work it would mean to have more icons in Blender, maybe it’s not really possible. I’d still like to have more because for me it would improve my workflow greatly. :slight_smile:

Icons are already very well established in practice. Look on your phone! Look at history. Look on the street. Signs! Signs everywhere.

Just a simple option in menus, toolbars… would suffice!
Options: Text | Text & Icons | Icons (as are in some other: C4D, ArchiCAD…)
Icons will not clutter anything, they can only free existent clutter already in.
Icons that are not there - can use default X icon or empty box if turned on - let user make it’s own.

Do you have a writing on a spoon to know how & when to use?
Some of us tend to be more visual & whole lot faster. Same as with keyboard shortcuts, muscle memory… yeah it’s not for beginners, but as you advance you want to have options to adapt the tool so there’s no need for wasting mind. You know, if instead of twice you only click once, you saved 50% time. So if i see an icon, i recognize it faster, than words in a menu… and that makes the whole workflow faster (for advanced users).

Also if developers will make a simple version for kids, it will be better and more intuitive with icons. Kids start drawing & creating forms before they start reading, that’s natural.

Sometimes it feels like whole lot of ppl just can’t see past their fence or nose.

I’m not entirely convinced you can make a meaningful icon for something like Correlated Multi Jitter vs Sobol, or Tangent space, or Glossy Filtering at all. Sure you can make an icon. But not one that communicates the concept on par with the text (which you can Google).

How do you perform in traffic ?.

Not that great! :smiley: