Pretty great presentation - I would bet that in the end for the creative area they stated that the degree does not matter because the person who would apply is already highly trained and I think chances are higher that those are not “I learned all alone in my 4 walls during 6 month”. They make very often references to faculty and training facilities knowing that most of the applicants also come from that area. You have to be aware of the level of perfection they require to even consider you as a modeler, material, lighting artist.
In that sense I would see education as an accelerated path to gaining skill / knowledge.
Fortunately today unlike 15 years ago because of the internet access to education and knowledge is also greatly easier.
But I still think that guys like Dali who infront of his faculty stated that nobody present was skilled to test him, got kicked out and went on becoming the famous person he was area rather rare.
This is very good information. To give you the TL;DR in regards to the original question:
“Do (digital arts) degrees matter?” (asked around 2h:09m)
- For international applicants, a degree is a basic requirement for a (normal) Visa
For US applicants, a degree does not matter, it’s all about the demo reel
Another area that comes to mind where a degree might be a requirement is teaching, especially in an academic environment.
Degree or not, be wary of spending a lot of money on digital art education. It’s a popular subject that a lot of educational institutions are trying to cash in on, but (to my knowledge) there is very little quality control there.
. . . also, don’t forget that “art is universal.” You don’t have to leave your country to pursue it. There’s far more to the world of 3D than just “video games” and “cinematic movies.”
Everyone who wants to sell you something is going to try hard to persuade you that the grass is greener “over there,” and that the reason why you’re not yet successful at finding a job (have you really tried, yet? is because you are deficient in some way and that spending money with them will cure that deficiency.
And, as others have said, “there’s really no regulation.” In the world of computer programming, which is my daily-bread occupation, today people are being suckered into spending $20,000 or more on self-imolating “boot camps” which brazenly promise “to (heh… read carefully!) help them find (heh) a six-figure job” after they’ve spent a mere 14 weeks. (Roughly the equivalent of a single community-college night class that used to cost about $150. I wrote and taught such classes for a dozen years.) But if their presentation of your situation more-or-less matches your own, you’re quite likely to accept … and, to pay (dearly) for … their ‘solution.’ There are a lot of sharks out there, preying on disillusioned swimmers.
This. Art is truly universal, and the Internet really should negate most on-site office space requirements. If someone works better at 2 am than a 9-5 job, it can be allowed on off-site labor.
As for the Internet and its effect on the business side of art: The playing field is leveled in a lot of compelling–and somewhat scary–ways. How does one living in an affluent country, where the cost of living is high, compete with an artist who can get by on substantially less, and so therefore can provide work at a huge reduction in price? When you add the inevitable burden of a student loan which must be paid off, countries which subsidize collegiate art courses could very well give their citizens a significant advantage in the future over graduates from the proprietary, self-pay university systems in other countries.
And having seen some of the work coming out from Chinese artists on sites like ArtStation and whatnot, I cannot help but be humbled and flabbergasted at the skill and expertise necessary for such work.
Keep in mind that this was a lecture hosted by an unaccredited institution that does not grant degrees.
But that aside. I think if you look at how many job listings out there don’t specify education isn’t the right way to look at it. Rather, how many people in the field actually hold degrees (either in art or some other field). It’d be nice to believe that people who learned 3D in their spare time out of passion and without any production experience were getting work, and maybe in some fields they are, but I just have a hard time believing that’s the case. Production experience, either academic or otherwise, I’d expect to be valued and taken into account along side a demo reel. Perhaps I’m wrong.
Honestly, as an animation student I find these threads kind of frustrating and I really do wonder how many people who reply to them actually are working in the field full time as a career, and how much of this is regurgitation. I hear these same lines over and over again, almost verbatim. Usually when I see that, I’m skeptical - especially when there is no mention of anything that would validate these claims.
I think you are not wrong. But what is really a job.
In the interview I think they quite clearly spoke about job levels that are in the entry level or in such fields where you are getting a task and you have to execute it.
It would have been interesting to see what their own requirement is for higher positions.
In the end I don’t think the degree makes you an artist or designer without pre-existing talent.
But the facility I think can quicker transform you compared to doing it all yourself.
“people who reply to them actually are working in the field full time as a career”
Here at BA? 0 I would guess.
That’s not really relevant, the people speaking are responsible for hiring (at their respective departments) at Blur studios. If you’re out to look for a job, that’s the sort of people you will really want to listen to.
It’d be nice to believe that people who learned 3D in their spare time out of passion and without any production experience were getting work, and maybe in some fields they are, but I just have a hard time believing that’s the case.
What they are telling you is that they don’t care how you acquired your skills, if only you can demonstrate that you have them. Someone coming out of school doesn’t have production experience, either. Being largely self-taught is not at all uncommon for CG artists, but it’s also common to have studied fine arts or design instead.
Production experience, either academic or otherwise, I’d expect to be valued and taken into account along side a demo reel. Perhaps I’m wrong.
If you watched the lecture, you will find that these are the important parts to even get a foot in the door (and I have heard this from many places):
Don’t waste time, keep things simple
Keep your reel short (30 seconds recommended)
Absolutely only show your very best work (Quality over quantity)
At the end of the lecture, they literally say “a degree does not matter” to them.
Therefore, to even be considered, your demo reel really is all that matters. I don’t believe there is such a thing as “academic production”, that sounds almost oxymoronic to me. If the skills you acquired from your education aren’t evident from your reel, then the fact that you went through with it is irrelevant.
Of course, those are just the hiring practices at that particular studio. Other companies may value a degree more.
Honestly, as an animation student I find these threads kind of frustrating and I really do wonder how many people who reply to them actually are working in the field full time as a career, and how much of this is regurgitation. I hear these same lines over and over again, almost verbatim. Usually when I see that, I’m skeptical - especially when there is no mention of anything that would validate these claims.
I share your skepticism, but I would go one step further: Ignore career advice even from people with a career in the field, unless they are hiring themselves. People who spent tens of thousands of dollars on an education have a strong psychological incentive to exaggerate how much it helped them in their career.
Also, never listen to people from Academia, they’re all full of shit. :evilgrin:
Blender has both degrees and radians, but uses radians internally. Whether they are important or not depends on the project. For architecture it might be very important that walls are 90 degrees on each other.
Conversion from one to the other isn’t too much of a problem; though it’s one heck of a rude awakening when you’re starting out and you think rotation is always in degrees.
LOL - So true the first time I stepped onto it and nothing worked as expected I did not even realize it was not using degrees because I did not know about radiance.
I work full time as a designer and detailer. I was working as a carpenter on a construction job when I showed my boss a render I made of a company project on my spare time. The next week, I was moved into the office to do rendering for the company. they also crosstrained me in autocad to make production drawings.
Well. I am planning on sharing it with my class. It’s a good lecture. But Gnomon isn’t going to select a lecturer that is going to under cut their own students, students who are paying a lot on an education that does not return a degree. It’s likely that for Gnomon students who have solid portfolios that’s not going to matter much.
What they are telling you is that they don’t care how you acquired your skills, if only you can demonstrate that you have them. Someone coming out of school doesn’t have production experience, either. Being largely self-taught is not at all uncommon for CG artists, but it’s also common to have studied fine arts or design instead.
This is largely what I am also saying, but with the caveat that it’s very difficult to actually get that experience if you’re self-taught. I didn’t want to say this because it can be so controversial - but whether it’s fair or not, Blender is infrequently listed as examples of “high end software” in job descriptions. I am curious how well received an excellent portfolio would be if his or her resume lists Blender as their only experience. (yes. Blender is just a tool, but lets be realistic - what tools you use do matter)
Blender opens the door to a lot of artists and smaller studios. But I am constantly concerned that my experience with Blender won’t do a lick of good at larger studios. I’m glad I have it this foundation, but I’m kind of feeling like I’m starting over with Maya and Houdini.
Therefore, to even be considered, your demo reel really is all that matters. I don’t believe there is such a thing as “academic production”, that sounds almost oxymoronic to me. If the skills you acquired from your education aren’t evident from your reel, then the fact that you went through with it is irrelevant.
I’m curious how much experience you have with film and animation education. While the production pipelines in an academic setting are small, we are producing materials in teams. As I had mentioned I am working on two different student films right now, as well as doing R&D for my own project. From my experience, working in a larger project is a completely different experience than working on my own stuff, and you can only get so far on tutorials from Lynda. Not that this isn’t a bad thing, I use them literally on a daily basis. However, I cannot realistically see myself getting to the kind of career I want that way either.
At any rate, yes, these productions are very small, and my VFX budget is measured in the hundreds, not millions (and all of it is going into rendering). But it’s experience that I’m getting that I wouldn’t be able to obtain on my own.
Other programs are production-oriented from day one with assigned roles based on student skills and interests. It’s not just about learning software. It’s about assembling teams, working in a collaborative environment and finding our niche in a pipeline. In fact, Gnomon takes this approach.
Perhaps this doesn’t translate into a degree from an HR perspective. However, I think it is a valued fact when the description on my demo reel looks like this:
Project: “This Movie”
Director: Joe Shmoe
Responsible for clouds, dust, compositing
This clearly indicates that I am willing to work in a team.
When I first started with my program I met a woman who recently graduated from the film school. She held the feeling that she could have taught herself and skipped University alltogether and seemed pretty annoyed by her whole experience.
She then directed me to the section of the video rental store where I would find the movie I was looking for. She was working at Hastings.
In programming:
Degree is not a must at all for vast majority of tasks. There are some tasks that can be done more efficient by somebody with degree (Or having taken at least few relevant programming courses).
A fraction of tasks require higher education (Such as… image processing, efficient data processing, etc)
I begun working without degree (Began and finished my studies while working as programmer) and it has never impeded me from getting a good job.
I am not stating that this is not possible - and no where in my posts do I also mention this. At some companies in some fields it does not matter. But why do you also think there is something like Gnomon or such services. It is there to help people to get up to speed. And modeler at company A is not the same as at company B.
Obviously I was being drastic with the “0” - the point was to state that this is more a hobby forum and it is not only problematic but reckless to state that in 3D field you do not need a degree.
Lets ask what 3D is: Industrial Design, Jewelry Design, Motion Design, Animation, Modeler, ArchViz, Architecture, Toy Design, Product Design, and and and. Maybe the more a job is simply using a software and executing a design a degree does not matter, but I question that if the higher you go and the more complex also the skill set is that then a degree is still not required.
It is a pretty wide field with many options and different levels of employment specifically ranging from executing designs to creating designs.
It is a typical notion here to over state possibilities similar to Blender at one point replacing Maya.
And if people here ask for advice one should provide them with a wide viewpoint.
I think it is save to say that Blender on a resume does not really do you much good.
Two reasons:
They don’t use the software, are in a very fast moving industry, and when you get hired you need to perform with the software they use. I hardly think they will give you time to grow into their tools.
It seems that specifically for animation/game design if you want to work in the bigger studios you need to know the software they use at least to a proficient level.
It might even speak against you in case they think that you do not know high end apps and focused on using Blender. In the end the process is often the same. But I found that often people do not know or realize that you can easily transfer experience in design from one application to a different application. In the end for modeling all apps provide the same extrude scale move what ever commands.
Obviously when you graduate you want to be able to know what a company needs but if you school teaches Maya and the job uses Max or Houdini ah well, then you have/should sit down and learn the app yourself. But as said if you know Maya and how to use it, getting used in the other apps is I think less of a problem.
After all in your portfolio you do not show that you can mainly use the software, but you show you artistic talent.
If you go to Nickelodeon unlike Blur it is different - they actually train you before letting you work.
So companies can have very different mentalities and cultures.
Some really train and nurture talent, others just plug you into a cubical.
