Customization questions from a Blender-curious 2d/3d artist.

[Pior]

On 8 - Lamoot, yes, I have been using component-centered navigation for a while too, as most other 3d apps offer that. Max tends to be a bit more flexible than Maya in that regard as it has the option of constantly updating the center of interest in component mode without requiring any user input, which is pretty great. (I suspect that this option must be available in Maya too by now). Overall this principle is quite widespread : whatever is selected can be set as the center of camera rotation.

I actually feel like Blender offers a lot of very good options for viewport navigation. Center View to Mouse is pretty great indeed ; I personally use Center View to Cursor, as I like the idea of precisely clicking on the point that I want to define as the center of interest. Similar idea

As a matter of fact and despite years of practice, scene navigation in most 3d apps still tends to cause me some kind of motion sickness, which I think comes from the view not rotating exactly around the point that I am looking at. Center View to Cursor totally solved this issue for me, and I think this is one of the reason why I feel so comfortable in Blender.

Back on the topic of not being able to zoom in fully : It definitely stopped happening over the last few days, but I 'll try to come up with a reproducible scenario for you guys to try it out.

Pachupp : thanks for the kind words man I do have a Twitch, but I have not been on it as much as I would like to as I am juggling between a few different projects at the moment.

Hopefully I will be able to get back on track soon ! I mostly intend to use the channel for 2d work as it is a good incentive to practice, but if the opportunity arises I will definitely stream some Blender work as I feel like the program certainly deserves more exposure.

[Lamoot]

I guess what I wanted to say is the tool served me well for a long time until Center View to Mouse was added. I’m still amazed how it improved scene navigation for me. But you seem to be well equipped as well with center view to cursor

As for not zooming in fully, I’d say it’s a design/technical decision rather than a bug. It happens here often as well (and since as long as I can remember). It will happen whenever you zoom in enough in the 3d view. The camera get’s closer, but it never gets beyond the current view pivot.

Have you tried FPS navigation the 3d view yet? By default it’s shift+f and in this mode the camera actually travels so it should be easier to get inside a mesh. It has all sorts of options as well, like mousewheel controling the speed of movement or holding alt to go slower for extra precision.

[Pior]

Lamoot, I just tried the FPS view mode and I can see it being useful for large scenes and exterior modeling. That’s probably not something I would use very often myself, but it certainly is great to have when needed !

Besides that, I am back with a new round of questions. Most if not all of my modeling needs are now fully covered by Blender (except one last thing mentioned below), so from now on I will be mostly focusing my time on workflow optimizations (I am hoping to learn Python basics next year in order to start making my own custom panels and menus) and rendering.

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1 - Universal component Delete

The last remaining modeling issue I am facing is in regards to component deletion. Dissolving components works great and behaves as expected, letting me dissolve whichever component is currently being selected ; however, Delete is causing me some trouble as it always seems to default to Face mode. This requires me to manually select the component type to be deleted after the fact, which is counter-intuitive and slow. A workaround would be to assign different hotkeys to the different Delete mode, which is something that I played with for a bit, but that’s quite inefficient as there is no good reason to use 3 hotkeys for one single universal operation.

I also tried assigning the same hotkey to all Delete variants (Face/Vert/Edge) thinking that it would then automatically fall back to the appropriate mode, but that did not work either.

This sums up the issue, with the right hand side screenshots showing the behavior that I am looking for :

Here is a video showing the issue :

In short : does anyone know how to setup the Delete tool so that it behaves like a universal/conditional delete ?

2 - Multiple lights preview in realtime

I am currently exploring Cycles rendering, playing around with a few example files and materials as well as the fantastic skin shader released by Mattiew Heimlich. The rendering in itself works great, but I end up being stuck in my iterations as I do not know how to setup the viewport so that it shows even a rough approximation of the lights to be rendered. I totally understand that there is no way to get anywhere close to the Cycles rendering quality in realtime - but still, I am looking for a way to at least roughly preview the way lights are going to reflect off the model in the final render.

Here is an example of what I mean, using a very basic realtime shader in Max :

Note that I am well aware that it is possible to assign a material to a model in such a way that it reacts to multiple lights in the viewport, when the viewport is set to BGE or Blender Render, as shown here https://cgcookie.com/blender/2014/06/17/realtime-glsl-lighting-shading/. But this doesn’t work if a shader like this Cycles skin shader is applied. Would anyone know of a clever way to achieve this when working with Cycles ? Maybe a macro temporarily switching to another viewport mode and temporarily assigning a simple material ? (Coming from a realitme background, being able to preview the end result of an image at any time is very important to me.).

3 - “Wire over solid” viewport mode

Lastly, I am wondering if there is a way to set the Blender viewport so that is shows solid volumes with a wireframe overlay, globally. I know how to do this at the per-object level, but this is not very useful as it requires a lot of back and forth tinkering. Is there a way to set the global viewport rendering mode to be that way, and if not, how would one apply such a setting (and toggle it on and off !) to all the objects of the current scene ?

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Thanks a lot for your help !

[0rAngE]

@Pior

1 - Universal component Delete
The last remaining modeling issue I am facing is in regards to component deletion. Dissolving components works great and behaves as expected, letting me dissolve whichever component is currently being selected ; however, Delete is causing me some trouble as it always seems to default to Face mode. This requires me to manually select the component type to be deleted after the fact, which is counter-intuitive and slow. A workaround would be to assign different hotkeys to the different Delete mode, which is something that I played with for a bit, but that’s quite inefficient as there is no good reason to use 3 hotkeys for one single universal operation.

I also tried assigning the same hotkey to all Delete variants (Face/Vert/Edge) thinking that it would then automatically fall back to the appropriate mode, but that did not work either.

In short : does anyone know how to setup the Delete tool so that it behaves like a universal/conditional delete ?

Such a simple concept, yet something so eluding to the Blender devs. The current delete really does not bring much to the table if anything, yet gets into way most of the time.

Definitely something I’ll look into trying to make it context sensitive at least.
Besides that Delete finctionality, there’s a couple of other tools I’d like to consolidate under one context sensitive smart solution.

In the meantime, Pie Menus are your friend. You get one hotkey+swipe for all your needs. Look at the way it’s resolved in Wazou’s Pie Menus

Edit:
I realized he doesn’t have a screenshot of the Delete Pie Menu, here’s how it looks

@Pior

3 - “Wire over solid” viewport mode
Lastly, I am wondering if there is a way to set the Blender viewport so that is shows solid volumes with a wireframe overlay, globally. I know how to do this at the per-object level, but this is not very useful as it requires a lot of back and forth tinkering. Is there a way to set the global viewport rendering mode to be that way, and if not, how would one apply such a setting (and toggle it on and off !) to all the objects of the current scene ?

The addon that you are using ‘Display Tools’ (Shading Setup menu) can do that. If nothing is selected it’s on the viewport level.

Edit:
Wazou’s Pie Menus, has Display Tools Addon functionality integrated within. Especially in the edited version I use (that you can find in my custom setup I’ve shared). I have 3 pie menus dealing with displays, and I can get anything display related off it.
The big deal with Pie Menus (especially the way they’re implemented in Blender, which is extremely good BTW) for me is multifaceted:

• it cuts down the number of hotkeys used (you have to remember)
• it does not cut down on speed at all
• cuts down on mouse travel as the Pie Menu is invoked under the cursor and uses gestures (one of the most important features)
• a command invoked by a slice in a pie can be a whole script, opens up room for smart tools
• allows for muscle memory learning as you can see the pies as you hold the key
• allows for 2 types of use: hotkey(hold)+swipe(release hotkey); hotkey(release)+swipe+click/hotkey

When you add it all up, your workflow ends up using a lot less hotkeys, overall clicks and mouse travel, and you get no impact on a command<>command ratio (actually you get much faster as the Pie Menus can use whole sctipts to be executed).

I would strongly recommend spending some time with Pie Menus trying to get comfortable with them. And ofcourse, it’s gotta be Wazou’s Pie Menus

[Pior]

Thank you for the support Orange ! Always appreciated

1 - On universal delete
I see ! I was under the impression that it was just me missing something obvious, but reading your comments I now understand that this it is simply a missing feature at the moment - the Delete tool simply needs a little tickbox that says “operate on currently active selection mode”.

This is probably just a matter of time before it gets implemented as this is indeed a very basic and essential concept. Until then I suppose that it is yet another incentive for me to learn Python ! And if anyone with Python experienced is interested in working on such a script, let me know and I will do my best to provide guidelines and user feedback.

On Pie menus : I do understand that many people love them, but I personally see no advantage in using them over regular on-screen popus like the ctrl-A/insert menu, or the regular delete menu :

After all the functionality is exactly the same : pressing a button brings up an on-screen widget containing nested visual shortcuts to existing tools. I am sure that some pre-made Pie menus can be very beneficial to some artists, but I don’t think they will really help me much in this case since they would still rely on multiple variants of the delete tool. Thank you for bringing them to my attention though - I am curious to see how they operate under the hood just for the sake of learning more about UI tweaking.

3 - On wire over solid
I had no idea that the Display Tools add-on could do that ! Having to deselect all objects first sounds like a bit of an extra step but i will give it a spin regardless.

2 - On render preview
I just realized that I could probably take advantage of Cycles baking in order to make the realtime preview of a scene as close to a render as possible. Of course that’s not going to really help me with interactive light placement, but being able to iterate on a scene with some of its element looking just like a final render could accelerate my workflow greatly. That’s definitely something I will be trying out soon.

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If anyone has more info or ideas regarding these questions, feel free to chime in !

[Pior]

Hi all - I am back with a few more questions But first of all, thank you so much Stan for the Delete Without Warning script : It works perfectly well, and it’s a real game changer. It’s fascinating how such a small change can make the program feel much more fluid. Very cool !

As for the questions for today :

4 - Mouse pointer precision for mesh selection.
I have been running into this one for quite a while now, and I originally attributed it to the OpenGL selection options. However I looked at it more carefully today and it seems unrelated to this setting. Basically, when performing model selection tasks in the viewport there seems to be an issue with “hit scanning” the models with the mouse. I am not sure if it is a precision issue or an problem related to where Blender considers the hotspot of a mouse cursor to be, or both ; all I know is that I often end up in the situation illustrated in the screenshot below. No matter how many times I click, the blue model in the background doesn’t get selected even though the mouse pointer is fully on top of it.

Is there a way to correct this behavior ?

5 - Browser window display settings for specific folders
Is it possible to set viewing preferences for individual folders when navigating using the built-in Blender browser ? The display mode seems to always revert to “list” but I would like to change that for some specific folders. And if such fine control is not possible, then I would like for the file browser to at least remember the last used display setting. Is it possible ?

6 - Model deselection on viewport background click
Lastly, is there a definite solution out there for model deselection when clicking on the viewport background ? I have seen a few discussions on this topic so far but I have yet to find a solid, reliable way to do so. For now I set it to double-click, but single-click deselect would certainly feel more fluid. Any ideas on how to do that ? FYI my keymap is a fully custom one based on the Blender defaults. (= I am not using the Max/Maya input scheme accessible through the Blender splash screen)

Thanks !

[riceart]

4. i checked that with default cubes and i could not reproduce that, can you attach file with this issue?
5. that would be nice
6. deselecting with default “a” shortcut is super fast, i dont get the idea to set it to mouse (on a side note i dont get the idea of using mouse in blender, for me this is completly stupid in terms of workflow speed)
   regards

[Pior]

Hi there Pachupp, thank you for taking the time to reply and trying things out !

4 - Sure thing ! Here is a scene :
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3tXoYtBEtrTQ01pUjZHN0JFZ0E/view?usp=sharing

The problem occurs at the zoom level and camera angle illustrated on the screenshot below. It seems to be related to the way the objects overlap in screen space.

Now of course the bug could be related to my setup (multi-monitor Windows machine) hence I would love to hear if you are running into it too !

5 - I am glad to hear that you would find this useful. It seems like an easy thing to implement, so I’ll be waiting to hear more about it from the devs.

6 - The way I see it is as follows. It’s not so much about speed (after all, mechanically speaking pressing a keyboard key is just as fast as pressing a mouse button !), and not quite about which is the “best” method either, as these things are highly subjective. From my point of view this is all about familiarity and avoiding the need to unnecessarily rewire muscle memory. Which then allows me to direct my energy on the more demanding tasks.

For instance, on Windows and MacOS, folder and file selection can be made with the mouse along with some key combinations to add and subtract items. And then rectangular marquee selection is always available with click-drag-release. There is nothing inherently right or wrong about this input scheme ; that’s just the way things are really. From there I personally appreciate it when third party applications offer the option to embrace this established behavior, as it creates a unified work environment. Now I am not here to argue about which way is the absolute best, which one is stupid, and which way should be set as default in Blender ; as the title of the thread suggests it, I am just curious about ways to customize Blender so that it fits my personal workflow needs.

I come with no preconceived ideas (for instance, I am a huge fan of the 3D cursor and use it for a lot of things, including scene navigation !) … but I can also easily recognize when something is slowing me down instead of making me faster. And in the case of item deselection, having to integrate a new input scheme is definitely a bump in the road. Being able to deselect objects and components by clicking the empty space around them would definitely be a plus for me, and having access to marquee selection at all times without the need to enter “box selection” mode would help as well. But I also totally understand that it might not be as easy to implement as it sounds.

A lot of this comes from muscle memory from decades of using other programs … but I have no shame in admitting that

I hope this makes sense !

[riceart]

I checked your file and still cant confirm that, it works. I can select any object without any issue.
6. why deselecting for you is so important that needs to be attached to mouse? Selecting all and deselecting all with one shortcut was designed by genius. Two actions with only one button. You came from autodesk apps so i understand you. I tryed maya/maxa few times, and in terms of design they are very “windows” alike apps. But from user perspective they are garbage in comparsion to blender. I know that you are fantastic artist and i have a lot of love for your work. Thats why im still steping in this thread but i think that you should leave mouse for call of duty, use tablet and have more faith in blender “by default”.
regards

[Pior]

Have you tried the selection thing from the same angle, with a similar zoom factor and FOV ? If yes, and it works on your end, then it confirms that it is a bug since the same scene on two machines seems to trigger different behaviors. I am not sure if FOV and near/far clipping planes are stored in the scene file though, so if not, I’ll have to pass these to you too.

As for the deselection behavior, again this is not about a given input method being superior or inferior to the other - especially when things are mechanically equivalent (same number of clicks/keypresses for a given action). There is no best method, just some that are more accommodating to some users. The fact that I previously used other apps is not really relevant, as I am willing to adopt any input method that makes me faster :). However consistency with the OS environment is pretty important to me, that’s for sure.

Regarding Select All and Deselect All using the same button by default : this is indeed an interesting UX choice, but I personally don’t have much use for it. For instance, I need to deselect anything that is currently selected very often, and I also need to select individual and multiple objects and components very often ; but very rarely do I need to select everything at once (and when I do, I use a dedicated, secondary keyboard shortcut for that). At the end of the day it really all depends on the needs of the individual, so there is no real need to demonstrate why one artist would like to do things one way or another …

Unfortunately, forum threads on these subjects often end up in arguments “for or against”, which I am not interested in. I just want to learn what is possible and what is not, and cook up my own workflow from there. This is why I am curious to hear if anyone knows of a reliable way to do deselect with a single click. I remember reading a discussion about it amongst devs before but I am unable to find it again … If that’s possible with some clever key bindings, that’s great and I’ll give it a try ; if not, I’ll just wait for whenever it will be available as an option, that’s not a deal breaker

[0rAngE]

4 - Mouse pointer precision for mesh selection.
I think I’m experiencing more than usual issues with this lately. If so, that would mean that something has changed in the code, I would believe that it will eventually be tracked down and ironed out. These things usually take time to be debugged.
In the meantime use Select Enumerate (List Select) to get by it.

6 - Model deselection on viewport background click
Courtesy of PLyczkowski’s rSelection Addon:

3D View > 3D View (Global)
view3d.select_or_deselect_all

You can map it to LMB, it shouldn’t break anything

[Pior]

Thank for chiming in again Orange ! I appreciate it.

4 - It is reassuring to hear that I am not the only one experiencing the issue. It seems like a straightforward viewport bug ; and if more people confirm that they are running into the issue as well I will take the time to report it. Here is a simple test case for anyone interested in investigating it :

(I suspect that the camera clipping distances might be contributing to the problem.)

5 - Wow, this is fantastic !! Thank you so much for the tip. I had been using Object Mode > object.select_all set to Left/Double Click/Deselect (as setting it to single left click would conflict with object selection, canceling it out) but your method works perfectly well and does not seem to create any conflict so far. What a game changer !! Thanks again man, this makes Blender just a little bit more fast and intuitive for me

[GrimZA (Armand)]

If i line my cubes meshes up like that and select in the highlighted area,it selects the cube on the right (since it is the upper cube).if i select again in the area with the cube on the right highlighted,it switches to the cube on the left (and then switches back to the cube on the right if i select again)

[Pior]

Thank you for trying things out DC - it seems like you are unaffected by the problem, which makes it even more weird …

To be clear : on my end, if I setup a scene with cubes arranged in the fashion shown in the above screenshot with nothing selected, whenever I click in the area highlighted in red the cube that is the most recessed always get the selection priority over the other one in front. Could that be due to some kind of exotic setting somewhere in the user preferences ?

[0rAngE]

I can confirm I have the exact same behavior!

I’ve changed a bunch of the related settings in UserPrefs > System, no luck.
Reverted back to defaults, and it works as DCBloodHound described.

This is one of those instances that Blender just can not work with custom prefz and you need to rebuild your Blender Startup. I used to get this much more often before. My understanding of where Blender bugs up is a bit better, so I hope it’ll be easier to rebuild. I’ll drop you a note here if I successfully rebuild my prefz.

[0rAngE]

I’ve narrowed it down to what might be the issue, at least with my custom prefz.
Here’s what did it for me:

• Do a filter search in the Input Editor (filter category: Name): Select
• Scroll down to the 3D View section
• I’ve expanded the entry that was the issue in my case
• I’ve changed it from Mouse - Left, to Mouse - Action

[Pior]

Oh, that’s a great find !! It seems to take care of the problem on my end too. In a way I can see how this could get past the cracks of testing, since if I understand correctly this might relate to mouse buttons switching. As soon as time allows I will attempt to file a precise bug report on it.

On a side note, once I enable this fix I am left with a smaller “deadzone”, which is more or less of the same thickness as the mouse cursor. This will probably require some investigation of its own … It probably affects all users though (both leftclickers and rightclickers). It’s as if Blender is thinking of the mouse pointer as a big square surface, instead of thinking of it as a precise 1pixel point.

[GrimZA (Armand)]

That’s not a deadzone actually.If you aren’t selecting a mesh that is overlapping with another mesh,it will select the mesh that has a vertex,face or edge the closest to where you selected (clicked).

It’s actually something that is carried over from edit mode where you don’t have to click on a vertex,edge or face to select it,you just have to click close to it. (i believe the distance can be specified in the settings but i haven’t checked yet,i believe its original intend was to speed up the modeling workflow)

[Pior]

Yup I see what you mean, and I absolutely love this feature when working at the component level as it is one of the smart little things that makes Blender so fast and intuitive to me.

But regardless … there is no real argument in favor of not being able to select a model that is actively being clicked on. In the case of visually overlapping models like these cubes, the hitscan from the mouse location should simply take priority over being able to “sloppyselect”.

If this behavior is widely confirmed, this will be another thing to report ; and if fixed I am confident that the app will feel just a little more responsive to everybody

[GrimZA (Armand)]

I don’t think it needs to be fixed,Blender is pretty responsive already.Trying to fix it might break sculpting,proportional editing and a few other tools which might also have ties with it.

Honestly,i wish autodesk inventor was as responsive as blender.Having to right click and then click “Ok” or “Finish” after each action is a pain in the ass.There is also the problem of cutting holes into curved objects in inventor where i can’t select the curved surface for 2d sketching.

Sorry for the off-topic