What happened with pie menus?

General Forums Blender and CG Discussions
21

When it would be this easy, then open source wouldn’t have all this problems :slight_smile:

It’s one of the big misconceptions of open source, that who wants a change must learn how to code. And simply change what bugs him. That the user is the programmer. This simply doesn’t work. At least not as intended. This doesn’t even really work well for stuff like game engines, where mainly programmers are around anyways. The users wants to use the software, not to rewrite it.

The problem is Blender users are artists in the first way, not programmers. It needs years to become a coder that produces useuful code. And some more years to become a master in a language. And not everybody is made to write code. Writing code is some art in its own.

And as told above, even rewriting the code to your needs doesn’t really help when the code doesn’t make it into the trunk. Which is another big challenge.

That challenge already happened to me. I made already a small Blender plugin to change what bugged me. It is super small and super useful to me. I used that functionality for years in another app, and i use it regularly now in Blender too. But it gots declined. Not because of my cruel code, but because somebody didn’t see how it could be useful to anybody, including me. For something that is natively in another app.

So learning to code and write the needed code doesn’t guarantee anything. Especially in the UI department where the code has to fit into the rest of the concept, and has to be accepted by the project maintainers. See next point.

It’s a completely different UI and workflow.

Which is a problem at its own.

While this menu is supercute, and a real improvement, it adds again a inconsistency with the rest of the graphical UI. Because it is different. Now think of plugins that brings their own UI, their own layout, their own buttons, their own whatever, each. Breaking the UI of the host application may work for this particular plugin and for some other big ones too. But there are quite a few more plugins around. This makes the whole graphical UI confusing.

22

There is some code here:

https://github.com/Psy-Fi/blender/tree/pie-new-recipe

(it’s still foundation code so don’t expect to see anything much there yet)

Work has stopped here for a while until I can get GSOC paint tools into trunk.
The plan is to resume after that.

Someone said that tools are more important than pretty menus currently and I agree.

23

Thanks Psy-Fi for telling the roadmap :slight_smile:

Someone said that tools are more important than pretty menus currently and I agree.

“Pretty menus” means usability. And usability is as equal important as functionality. For me usability comes before functionality :slight_smile:

24

Psy-Fi; the pie menu concept in general is usually more than just to look ‘pretty’.

It would actually solve the issue that occurs when you invoke an additive operator (like extrude) from the toolbar, because the invocation would occur right on top of the selection than at the edge of the window. Context-based menus would also be of great help because you would have suggested operators without searching for them first.

It may actually be more important to usability than some of the devs. realize.

It doesn’t have to have fancy graphics, just as long as it works.

25

What I don’t really understand is how pie menus went from a working implementation in python to this week’s poster child for the lack of caring for user concerns from the BF.

I guess because Ton said he’d look into it and any chance to knock him down a peg or two?

Seriously, pie menus were coded because using blender on a laptop without a number pad is semi-annoying and not some god given right being denied to you by an uncaring autocrat…

26

Just wanted to chime in.
Personally, I would not be using blender if I didn’t have the Pie Menu Add-On from LiquidApe. Blender has won me over, and I’ve been heavily using it in production and as my preferred personal tool, but there’s a lot of workflow breakdowns it has, many of which can be addressed using Pie-Menus.
In my opinion it’s one of the most important features that will address the many workflow and customizability issues blender has (many of which fall under the broad UI category). To be fully functional they need an easy+functional way for customization.

27

@OrAngE - You made me feel warm and fuzzy inside :slight_smile: Thanks! (Props to Uncle Entity/Patmo141 too - could not have done it without those guys)

28

Sorry for repeat myself too much… but a customizable Pie Menu, where you can choose what option you want in every box (even macros if you know Python) and choose if you want 8 options/key or even more (like Pie View Menu or Pie Proportional Menu in LiquidApe´s addon) would improve the workflow of anyone over 9000!!!

If a menu can speed up your workflow so much, to me, is as important as any tool.

And Liquid PLEASE!! change “Camera” in Pie View Menu and put in that box “View All”, I think that option is more used. PLEASE!!! “Camera” option would be nice below “Local” option box, don´t you think?

PD: Another idea for not touch the default shortcuts, for example:
(in Edit Mode)
Simple Press on “F” key -> Fill
Hold “F” key -> Face Menu

29

I completely agree! Pie-menus are all about workflow and not having to jump around the interface to trigger common actions.

30

I very much agree as well and I enjoy the pie menus in Alias Maya and recently also in Fusion 360.

31

+1 pie menu is really usefull !
If we can customize them it’s will be awesome !!

32

Imagine a box in the Pie Menus with the macro “Clear All”, (Alt+R)+(Alt+S)+(Alt+G), just imagine… all BC creating macros and sharing them and you just have to put that macro in a box of the Pie Menus. That´s a trully Workflow speed boost.

33

It’s official… Mr. Powerless strikes again.

Despite all the pie menu talk, the pie menu addon has officially been remade as a… pie menu addon.

Thank you letting us know that you were not serious about Pie Menus, and thank you continuing to be out of touch with just about everything. Blender development (and PR) is about as reliable as a trampoline made out of wet toilet paper.

“Everyone has their own ideas of what menus and shortcuts should be used, so I think Ton’s idea was the best after all.”

“Pie Menus are meant for add-on writers. There will be no pie menus in official blender, rather we will ship a minimal add-on to give people a starting ground for their own pie menus.”

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t297/rabenwulf/ScreenHunter_11Aug070534_zps6b43b29d.jpg

34

Hey Saint, nice to have your spam back! /jk

35

That is disappointing. At least it will ship as a semi-official addon, and I should be able to integrate it into my workflow, but it doesn’t do anything to help new users.

36

I think the message there is not clear enough:

The pie menu code itself (C code that allows spawning pie menus easily) will be included in blender. This will allow add on writers (and technically inclined users) to write their own pies with just a few lines of code and a keymap change.

Clarification: few lines of code means practically choosing a name for the menu and defining the operators/properties that will be used on the menu (3 - 10 lines of code at most)

We decided not to ship any pies on default blender (but DO ship an add-on) for many reasons. I have had questions of whether it will be possible to disable pie menus, and also, many, often conflicting, requests about what pies should be included and on what key they should be bound. I think this solution is the best for all.

37

I would argue theres never going to be a “solution that is best for all”, especially when its with a group of people who just dont want a method of interaction they will chose not to use without even using it in the first place.

So if you cant find a solution that everyone is happy with, and trust me this is one of them, then you have to have the solution thats best for the software regardless of the people who think they might want to disable it. I mean think about how that kind of logic can apply to everything else in blender…nothing would get done.

38

Sorry but this seriously kind of sounds half arsed I am a bit gobsmacked at the moment.

39

Hard to call something a “release” of a feature when the feature is not actually implemented as such. It’s like saying that left-mouse select is supported… but only if you actually go and completely change the keymaps manually to do so yourself.

I don’t think this is going to really go down well with anyone actually looking forward to pie menus in the UI. Not picking on Psy-Fi here as it doesn’t look like he had much choice in the matter… but still a disappointing result. On the other hand, at least it wasn’t relegated to an completely unsupported patch like some other UI features :frowning:

40

instead of awesome pie menu with is standard in one of the best programs Maya… we have some shity tabs…