The problem with Adobe's monopoly

Well no. Its not nearly that simple. Theres so much stuff (highly technological stuff) which wasnt "driven by profit" at all, indeed not even developed by corporate entities. The internet wasnt quite created by corporations, let alone for profit. The algorithm which made google what it is today was developed using money from the National Science Foundation.

Sure, to an extend technology may be driven by profit. Though probably not by monopolies.
Heres a thought: I suppose everyone could easily name 10 different car manufacturers from the top of his head, right? Theres countless of em, french, japanese, german, italian, US-,swedish, indian, british, and what not. Now name 10 different IT companies. Or, lets be more specific: Lets say 10 manufacturers of consumer CPUs. Theres Intel, theres AMD and, well I already start to get short of examples. I may well have forgotten about some, but my point is how its a whole different magnitude.

So why is this? Here`s my (totally uscientific, not evidence based) guess: The IT sector arose in the 1980ies, when Regan and others started to heavily deregulate the capital markets etc.
Most car manufacturers are much older and rather from a time when tycoons like John D. Rockefeller, Cornelius Vanderbilt or J.P. Morgan at least invested mostly inside the US (thus helping the US-industry grow), rather than just sending their profits into some offshore banking paradise.

greetings, Kologe

‘Well no. It`s not nearly that simple.’

It could be more detailed as a statement, but as biological entities we make everything for profit, but that is true that we cannot always measure profit financially. Internet was created for military (for the profit of a community as defending their lifestyle), base researches are for profit, just not directly.
Anyway, I agree that I simplified it maybe too much, but creating a widespread, affordable product for the mass involves ‘for profit’ companies.

Forced meaning you can no longer have the option to purchase a standalone license at all; ie the word “only” in “subscription-only.”

I have Photoshop CS4, and I can use it forever to open any PSD files I’ve created. If I was on Photoshop CC, and stopped paying, I couldn’t open my PSD files until I resubscribed. Then I’m also at the whim of whatever price hikes they decide on down the road to access my own stuff. I’m not comfortable with that level of dependency.

Plus Adobe, like most giant corporations with subscription services, is a hassle to deal with when trying to cancel.

‘I’m not comfortable with that level of dependency.’

I agree, but for clients most of the artists have to be able to handle PSD files perfectly. That ability costs 12 USD per months and you get an industry standard app as a plus.

The dialogue in that link is a little ridiculous on both ends. Granted, Adobe’s customer support (chat ESPECIALLY) is utterly useless. I had a customer support representative tell me in broken English that it’s not possible to use Photoshop in conjunction with tablet monitors. “Riiiiiight…”

But someone who contacts Adobe customer support to cancel their annual subscription on the day their subscription is set to renew is asking for disappointment.

My biggest problem with Adobe (and other companies as well) is how much money they make and how little innovation they do. Sure, I know that money doesn’t go only into development, but the amount of new stuff they put every year is laughable at best. They’re just too comfortable in their position.

And I kinda of few some people defending these companies are suffering from some kind of Stockholm syndrome. The software isn’t even yours (and now that’s truer than ever) and they are giving you as little as they can in order to keep it looking like the subscription is worth it and you still think it’s all fine?

Sure, if it is the best option for your pipeline and if the price is worth it, than use it! If it has some features to praise, than praise them. But please don’t defend their ethics, monopoly (or something close to this) and the way they screw you just enough so you won’t feel you’re getting screwed. (That wasn’t aimed at anyone specifically on this thread.)

The best invention was the word.
Only the word; “industry standard”.
Games dont depend on adobe for graphics, but a clever marketing phrase “industry standard”, made everyone believe it, was. Oh and sure it might be nice on first sight, but i think its only nice until you understand something else better: “industries want to make money of you”. Photoshop isnt interested in your vacation pictures for example, or how happy or sad you are.

The phrase ïndustry standard" has been applied to office 365 too, and many other products, while often alternatives do exist.
This office industry had to be forced to use open standards (by governments), they still by default lure people to save files in their formats … so what has been learned by the masses and people using it. …Not much.

If you dont decide to go for gimp or krita or libre-office draw so, then you simply keep such practices alive, you sponsor them.
Ultimately its up to yourself. You as who want to be labeled as “part of the industry”, but unable to control your industry.
However you could also sponsor, krita, gimp, libre office, blender etc.

Remind your living in a free world.

Isn’t this “fuse” just a glorified version of Make human? From what I can gather anyway.

Also, one of the main motivation of starting up this thread
I mean,
the reason I picked the 21$ version of illustrator was to be able to cancel the subscription…

‘My biggest problem with Adobe (and other companies as well) is how much money they make and how little innovation they do.’

I mentioned this before. It is true in one side and I completely agree. On the other side they are not forced to innovate as competitors are miles behind them usually.

‘Sure, I know that money doesn’t go only into development, but the amount of new stuff they put every year is laughable at best. They’re just too comfortable in their position.’

Yes. Also consider that big companies are not about innovation. Their size with the their corporate structure simple not helping ‘different’ thinking.

'And I kinda of few some people defending these companies are suffering from some kind of Stockholm syndrome. ’

No. We simple deal with the facts.

The software isn’t even yours (and now that’s truer than ever) and they are giving you as little as they can in order to keep it looking like the subscription is worth it and you still think it’s all fine?

Well, the books in the library are not ours, too. It does not a problem for people who wants to read them.

‘Sure, if it is the best option for your pipeline and if the price is worth it, than use it! If it has some features to praise, than praise them. But please don’t defend their ethics, monopoly (or something close to this) and the way they screw you just enough so you won’t feel you’re getting screwed. (That wasn’t aimed at anyone specifically on this thread.)’

I think no one was defending their ethics. It is about facts; any competitor could make better tools with better licensing structure.
No one did that yet generally speaking. So it is not the shame of the big ones, it is the shame of the competitors who were not able to make a competitive product in decades.

Pretty much yes. It used to be Mixamo Fuse (which is still available on steam btw). I tried the Adobe version and wasn’t really impressed, they didn’t really add anything groundbreaking. They did censor the models though, haha. Hand painted “underwear” which looks really bad since it’s on the body mesh itself.

Also the download was pretty buggy, when I started the download it seemed to be stuck at 0% so I canceled a few times and tried again, but after searching the forums I found out that it was a bug that just didn’t display the download percentages but the downloading itself worked fine. I thought it was funny that I would find bugs right after I tried out CC. What’s wrong with downloadable executables? :no:

@fdfxd:
‘Isn’t this “fuse” just a glorified version of Make human? From what I can gather anyway.’
No. Adobe bought Mixamo; they also licensed their technology to AD a few years ago (Autodesk Character Creator or something like that).

@AlmaTalp
I don’t think I made myself clear enough by targeting my comment to people who did defend their instance on not innovating / their monopoly. I couldn’t care less what you do with your money, so if it’s worth it for you, than buy it / rent it.

One thing that I wonder though is if the lack of competition is really (or to the extent you’re saying it is) the fault of competitors. It’s not like the big ones don’t do their best to keep the competition at bay (like buying them and then shutting them down and absorbing their features into their software).

As I see no one put a gun to the head of the developers to make worse products.
When I was testing apps I was surprised how developers suck in features compared to the leaders on the checked areas.
I even thought that developers simple never used IRL the apps of the competition or just were too dumb to understand what makes an app cutting edge, what is implemented badly in competitor’s apps (even in AD or Adobe apps), etc.

I also don’t think that someone put a gun to the head of 3rd party developers to sell their stuff to AD or Adobe.
They did it for profit. Like Adobe bought it for profit. So there is no ethical difference.

I always wonder how incredibly little people care about intellectual property when there’s a discussion about SAAS.
Inapt comparisons to renting flats or cars are common, as well as equally inapt assumptions about fellow posters professionalism “if you can’t make 50 dollars…” which still get brought forward when nobody even complains about the hight of monthly payments.
What never fails to appear too is the wrong statement that one doesn’t own the software but only aquires temporary usage rights.
This at least for every European since 2011 clearly no longer applies and outrules whatever software makers prefer to write into their EULA (In that sense Pixologic - who admittedly has been very kind in the past - breaks EU law by disallowing resale of their software).

What makes me wonder is how little many people care about the consequences of changing over to another software pipeline after years of intense multi application usage of Adobe CC. If one embeds raw files and places ai’s into psd’s and outputs the composition layouted as .indd or mingles various of those propritary formats with Adobe’s equally propritary Motion Graphics formats one ends up with a highly interesting multi gb file conglomerate which no 3rd party program out there can handle.
Ex CC subscribers are obviously screwed as well, unless they re-subscribe: Just to see what they already own.

@hifred:

To be honest I’m pretty happy with EU decision to make selling used software legal. Question what will happen with TTIP arrives as leader of the EU seem to sell out the Union for the US…

What would be necessary is to force open format usage like cellphones were forced to use mini USB. That would be a great help in some cases (even if it is almost impossible for all apps.

@fdfxd, about Mixamo Fuse, yes, it is a glorified version of MakeHuman, but Makehuman still isn’t able to do propper clothing on the models, so you always end up with nude people or with clothes that seems like borrowed hehe… And sometimes you need quick characters with clothes (Archviz for example). It is still in a “preview” state as they call it, but for the purpose of getting quick results that doesn’t look horribly bad it does the job fairly well. And you can edit them later in photoshop (pose, perspective, lighting), which still is faster (not better) than rendering it in Blender (which also takes more time). Not to mention that makehuman rig deformations… :no:

Again, as I said before, if you’re not going to use at least 3 programs of the suite on a daily basis, you really shouldn’t bother in paying for an Adobe subscription.
And since most people in this forum is interested in 3D (games, animation, VFX, Architecture, 3D printing, etc), I can safely conclude that you will be only using Photoshop sometimes over the course of a month; so paying for a subscription is really stupid.

Having said that, they do have a monopoly, and having to “rent” your software sucks big time. But then again, where are the alternatives? I mean, the good ones?
Specifically for motion graphics I haven’t found anything that beats what they offer (an After Effects alternative anyone…?).

Anyway, I think most of you are missing one big point here, and that’s time. To be clear, I only speak from my own experience and needs here, so it may not apply to everyone, but when you have to make between 3 and 4 animated infographics monthly, you HAVE to be fast, and you have to use whatever resource is available if it will help to get the job done.
I’ve tried before (mostly on my free time) to find a good workflow for motion graphics with Blender and other open source programs, but still, there’s not a good program combination that allows me to work faster or at the same speed… so it becomes a matter of what can I use to do it faster and hopefully better. Whatever feature they added in a new version or if they just changed the UI is not that important.

Here’s the simpler example I can think of, so you can see what I mean:

  • I get a logo file from the client, usually an .ai file. They asked me to create a nice animation of that logo to use in their youtube channel and their corporate events.
  • I open the file, split the logo in different parts (each part on its own layer) and save it.
  • Open After Effects, import the .ai file as a composition and it respects the layers, their order, their placement and their sizes.
  • Take each layer, put some keyframes or apply a motion preset and offset each layer’s starting point.
  • Export the video, send to the client.
    Turns out the fonts were changed, and the main color was modified. I just modify the illustrator file and take another render from After Effects.
    Then, they realize the video has to be in 2K, and the one I sent is 1280x720.
    Ok, I open AE again, upscale the resolution, and since the original file is vector it won’t be pixelated or blurry on the bigger size.

Now, using Blender, I’d have to first export each different part of the logo as a separate .png with transparency, and then import them in Blender one by one manually and set them up; or import the logo as a SVG file and split it directly in Blender. That alone, without considering the rest of the process, is significantly slower.
And every change the client asks for will force me to do that same process again. The only thing Blender will do is recognize the changes on the images once they’re loaded, but I’d have to export each one from the design program anyway…
Is a pretty straight forward process, in any software you choose to do it, and is easy enough to do it in a few hours, but with Adobe’s tools is faster, and faster means I can get more projects, and earn some more money. After all, this is what I do for a living.

I can’t say to a client: “yes, I could do it faster, but those f@#ers at Adobe have a nasty monopoly and I refuse to pay so your video will be ready in two more weeks, so wait for it”… Come on, that’s not how things work.
I certainly don’t like the way they’re selling their products, forcing us to pay for the permission to use their programs; but that’s what’s available. And, compared to what other software vendors are doing and charging, Adobe is not that bad.

Now, In the 3D realm there are far more options available for each part of the process (sculpting, modeling, animation, rendering, texture painting, compositing), both paid and free, but when it comes to graphic design and animation (motion graphics)… well, there’s pretty much Adobe. Is it ideal? Is it the best? Not exactly, but until a real competitor appears we’ll have to settle with it.

@Julperado
Question: have you tried Hitfilm? I tried it long ago, maybe I should to try it again…

I’m pretty sure that both Krita and Gimp support reading PS files, they probably don’t support all of the features but at least you wouldn’t lose everything. For myself if it doesn’t run on Linux then I’m just not interested. Being a hobbyist gives me some advantages. :smiley:

@hifred
^Hahaha… yes, very few are so wide minded.
If you rent a flat you are not allowed to paint over and landlord is not allowed to shit in… no matter what’s written in the contract. Simple ain’t it.

Adobe practice is ultra quasi-socialistic model… as Sweden :wink:

On with the news… Autodesk is firing 10% >source<