please post these Andrew price rants and articles where they belong ;
in the Off-topic Chat section of this forum.
Exactly, can not agree more!
As provocative as the article may be I totally agree with it. Becoming a good artist is an evolutionary process. Especially for a hobbyists like myself you adapt not necessarily faster but definitely better in more professional environments. I always admire ZBC where the focus is always to achieve as much artistic result with as little technicality as possible. In the Blender community I’ve mostly found the opposite to be true.
‘‘The truth is that on average, the blender community is producing art at a lower quality than the larger cg community.’’
Above quote from master price, is untrue, misleading and down right insulting to the entire blender community.
Untrue because if you have a look at ZBrush, CG Society and his pick of Artstation as well as any others that can be thought of there is some outstanding art there, but there is also a whole lot that is not really that good. Same as blender, wakey wakey master price there are also novices and hobbyists that use the top of the range software and their work is not and will never be as good as professionals and the creme dela creme.
Misleading because of the fact that Artstation according to master price has special ‘’ trending algorithm ‘’ that ensures the cream rises to the top, if blender community had this, the 1st glance at the site would obviously look a whole lot better.
Misleading because of the fact that blender site is being compared to sites where some of the best around as well as many professional post their best work.
Insulting, need I say more.
And master price if you get around to reading what I have written there is a short video explaining what the bell curve is and what it does, it really has nothing to do with your explanation of it, in fact what you are saying is, if I spend my days playing golf with Tiger Woods there is a good chance I will win the British Open.
I posted in a different thread but if there is something I find that should be criticized about the community is this fan boy attitude. I am always amazed how much one person gets attention compared to the other present and active community members that I think also added more in terms of learning material and content than Andrew.
This should not be seen as an attack to Andrew. It is good to have a person like him to drive attention for Blender. I wish sometimes his articles would however be smarter and other users not getting so crazy about them when they are a little to simple minded. This could
also then from his side drive rather positive views to Blender and save yourself this average art work talk which I think in this case
is rather arrogant.
His article could just have been condensed down to:
Blender is a free tool and thus we also have many beginners and hobby users. Pretty simple. But if you want more advanced feedback you can use the focused critique area in the forum. However question is how much quality feedback you might get because this means other advanced users have to be present and reply. True. But in addition to BA which is great for technical feedback, you can also use other forums online to share your work and get other exposure - maybe even become a member of a CG group.
Done.
the article seems like another senseless example of the guru-mind-principle, claiming you can reach a higher level of being just by taking the right steps and avoiding the wrong. if this thinking is anything else than illusion, there would be no more wrong doing just by following the right advices, gurus or surrounding yourself with the right people avoiding the rest. and after all the article is only pointing at the helplessnes of the author himself lost in concepts how to evolve as an artist.
@Jester Elly
Well to a point Andrew is right if you seek a certain level of professionalism you have to also speak to the right circle of artists. That circle while being there at BA is not very big and active. I - I have to say - do not very often respond to work in the forum. My fault. My main focus in the past 3 years was researching and developing a doable workflow for product design that includes Blender.
I also tell my students not to look at the work done in class as a measure but maybe look at other schools as a reference. Ironically I also point to work done at BA by artists who are still in high school to show them that they are sometimes quite complaining as college students and that because technology is so accessible today even a self taught high school kid with a good sense for 3D can be pretty terrific before even entering college/university.
And I also send my work to other forums for feedback - I diversify it.
My main annoyance with the article was just the lack of understanding what this community is about.
This law of averages, is the same reason that rich people usually have rich friends…
Please just leave Andrew alone. PLEASE JUST LEAVE ANDREW ALONE ! 
And, I find the young man amusing and many of his tutorials outstanding.
However, this forum is full of weekend artist who are hoping a four year old computer holds together while they attempt to pay for braces. Yet, in spite of that many are turning out some outstanding artwork in my humble opinion. Albeit maybe not as technically correct as the work on some other sites. Nor as polished since CG Graphics are many times dependent on the equipment and programs available as was mentioned here. Not to mention the time available.
My point being evidently Andrew is speaking to young individuals who have aspirations of making a living in CG. And, there’s nothing wrong with that. Don’t let that dream die. However, in the mean time some outstanding art shows up in this forum. By artist who could care less about Pixar.
Hell, I have a Blender buddy who is turning out art with the power going out several times a day. I’d say that’s a block or two down the street from Pixar anyway. Or, a world away. Andrew has that entrepreneurial spirit thing going on which colors his thoughts and decisions as mentioned here. I’m off to see what Speed7, minoribus and harleynut have been up to.
Andrew’s advice is clearly aimed at a certain audience, however he has not specified that up front. People who aren’t in that audience are taking offence because it doesn’t apply to them. Perhaps there’s a lesson there.
crazychristina exactly my point. I have a render going on and a little heat problem also. But, in searching for my friends I happened back this way. The young man is a avid reader which makes him interesting. And, I have only used his free tutorials which have been outstanding in my book. Many done using Blender Internal. I once did a Xmas card based on a Andrew tutorial and BI. Being on a fixed income now I can’t enjoy his paid tutorials.
But, really the reason rich sons a bitches hang around together is because they are rich. My god I mean what the hell, over. People seek out their own kind based on social status, wealth, race, ethic group or whatever. And, it’s been that way since the beginning of time. Why do larger cities have ethnic neighborhoods. The rich have rich friends because they have nothing in common with us until election time.
So while Andrew is a avid reader and interesting he just needs a few more years to take the polish off. Books are outstanding but then you filter them through your mind. But, of course the point was brought up here Andrew is somewhat the business man.
I don’t think some of us are taking offence nor offense for that matter. We simply have a problem with the conclusions he draws sometimes. And, since we are not in that business I don’t think that is our problem. Nor, a lesson for us if you will.
theoldghost - I think if you put yourself that much onto the stage you also have to realize that it might backfire.
The UI discussion was one example where it simply showed that reading and applying is not the same.
I am in the business to educate and mature future designers and this is a pretty hard job - tough one to be honest.
And while I find Andrew’s tuts quite good and informative - this go to a better art forum is pretty pointless.
To use quotes and such to justify your argument is a little way over the board when he makes a common sense
point a design secret. That is I think what others also criticize about the article - it is plain artificially inflated.
cekuhnen some of my favorite and most respected individuals were my high school teachers from the early fifties. So a tip of my hat to you sir. Sadly that feeling wasn’t felt doing twenty four weeks of Army schools nor about twenty weeks of shipyard schools. But, I know of no more noble occupation then a educator. That being said my views are colored by over a quarter of a century on this planet earth.
Young Andrew is not all wrong of course. Except maybe in this respect. If you have a gang of good workers and suddenly a bad apple that could very well pull the production down before they are raised up. And, if suddenly two show up in a gang of well trained workers supervision suddenly has the situation from hell. My blender buddyI love books since they are where the knowledge is at.
That being said we have books after books. Maybe in the next post I will quote from ‘Catcher in the Rye’ to prove a point. But, you do have a point sir. A man my age has no business on a forum like this. I need to be where prune juice is being discussed not master Andrew.
Theoldghost - You really are loosing me here with “I need to be where prune juice is being discussed not master Andrew.” ? My hole point in the posts was to put an honest emphasis on what it means being part of this community.
BTW teaching is also really an art and hard business - teaching and being effective in teaching are 2 so different worlds.
that is another thing
there is no age limit on forums here as I know of
and threads does not really tell you if it is a young chicken or an old tough bird! LOL
but forums here are for everyone to ask questions and get answers
does not matter what level you are at
forums are not only for super advance users
everyone is welcome to learn and get better
and it is all free so have fun and enjoy it.
happy bl
In the first place, if each person try to get in on communities that are more advanced that this person, this will result in a logical impossibility.
Beside that, it will be kind of opportunism, like: I want to take advantage of people more skilled than myself.
I think that there are productive communities, in which the members (at least the majority of them) want to help other members, share tips and experiences etc. In this kind of community, every member grows.
I like Andrew Price. His contribution to Blender UI is gradually bearing fruit: tabs, context menus etc. But this article… I prefer think that, yes , it’s good to be a Blender Artists community member and, at same time, keep our antennas on the world.
About Pixar: more people on the Blender community are enchanted by Pixar. Its render engine – Renderman – has now a version for Blender. And many sigh in happiness. I prefer to stay focused in Cycles instead of a foreign render engine that is not so concerned on work fine in Blender.
First off an apology is in order. What does a old man do after an argument with the gal friend and being half in the bag. But, head to the Blender Forum. They need breathalysers on these damn keyboards.
cekuhnen the comments about young Andrew aside for a moment. I think as we reach a certain age we occasionally think about our youth. Our early youth. And, that’s when those wonderful old educators pop into our minds. I was lucky enough to live in a small town where in my early twenties I occasionally ran into some of them in a social setting. So as the years went by and they left us it saddened me. And, not only me but the entire town of about ten thousand people.
The excellent instructors in the Army Signal Corp school and the shipyard instructors of course didn’t have that association with youth as those old beloved teachers had. Nor, did the professors in a junior college later in life. But, they were all educators nevertheless. In my later working years I found a joy in passing on my craft to a younger worker who wanted to learn. So in a very small way maybe I experienced what drove those folks. Once again my apologies. And, thanks RickyBlender for attempting to smooth that out.
One more observation if I might. There is a fellow American on here who chooses to render animation with back plates not having a three thousand dollar work station where he could obtain the same results with a live camera. But, some of those renders have you tempted to reach in and touch something. Another Blender artist in Europe with a live camera is doing some of the most entertaining animation I have ever seen. And, many times he is pushing Cycles to obtain those results. And, finally my Blender friend halfway around the world is turning out wonderful still art in spite of a spastic power situation. And, they are doing this while carrying on with daily life.
So in that respect I have to disagree with young Andrew. This forum is full of art work which has me in awe. And, is as inspirational as anything out there. You just have to search a little is all you have to do.
looks like he changed the title of the article to
“Why I don’t frequent blender art forums”
@ Theoldghost, now you make me very curious. What is your profession or what did you learn there and what did you pass on the younger? It sounds to me that you luckily where able to experience a different type or more hands on experience than this glorified you need a college education like today.
I did not see NinthJake’s post before but start to tent to agree with him - either the article is short minded or created this way on purpose to simply generate clicks. If the last one is rather the truth than it is a little despicable because it seems not to fit with the values of this community.
His tutorials were very helpful to me once upon time, I will give him that. Not so much anymore (granted I know my way around Blender well enough now). I understand that this bloke is running a pretty successful business now, and he doesn’t just simply sit in his room recording videos any more, but the quality of content is dropping. These 3 minute quick tip videos don’t quite cut it (although I won’t deny they can be useful) compared to his previous content. Seems to me like he just want to keep things ticking over instead of putting quality time into the content.
He also needs to tone down the Internet Marketing thing I think. Some of the classic IM splash pages I was seeing for some of his recent products were cringe worthy. He doesn’t need that, not with the brand he has. All he is doing right now is creating controversy and isolating his followers.
But, at the end of the day, this guy is probably making a shed load of cash and I respect him for that. He’s also very well spoken, very good at what he does and clearly quite ambitious and intelligent.
I’ll say this, which will probably trigger a few of you… but guess what buttercup, the truth can hurt. Andrew Price has done far more for blender and those learning it than the majority of people criticizing him COMBINED. The simple fact is HE IS a success story when it comes to blender and plays a key role in getting people into it. So based on what I have seen so far, its a lot of “biting the hand that feed you” mixed with jealously and personal offense.
I am honestly surprised Andrew stuck with Blender thus far, as I thought he would have ditched Blender for another application after the UI debate and following inaction by the UI devs. So much for those low hanging fruit. Blender is not consistent, its not reliable development wise. It would scare a good chunk of pros away for that alone. The recent blendercon is a great example of the out of touch nature that drives blender development (wireframes are so old fashioned…ect).
My point here is that not ONLY is he right but its something I have been arguing for awhile now (the so called blender bubble effect)… You really sell yourself short if the blender artist community is the bar you are measuring yourself by. That said, some credit does need to be given in regards to the fact that the quality of work presented has gone up significantly over the years… but I wouldnt put it on par with more app agnostic communities. App agnostic ones, where artist are showcasing art from a number of applications is far more significant than anyone tied to a piece of software (probably with the exception of zbrush).
BE ARTIST! Join Polycount, Join CGSOCIETY (they are douchbags but the art is good), Join various PROFESIONAL minded communities to see where the bar is set…and also you will find a lot more relevant workflows being presented than just hiding out on the BA forums.
Andrew if you read this, start using some other software as well. If the community demonizes you in return, why continue to give and BE ACTIVE? I can tell you that attitude is far more welcomed and respected with the commercial app communities. Its something I think the blender community can learn a bit from in that specific regard. At the end of the day, Blender isnt for everyone… but the community can either bring people in or drive people out and over the years I have seen this one drive a lot of people out. Thus the sticky at the top of this forum. I hope it wont continue to be the case going forward.