Now that’s a project I would have backed. LOL
Sure, I’m showing my age with this one, but I sprayed a mouthful of coffee reading that.
LOL!
Sintel has to save the rec center with her Bboy skills.
It has enough markings that I would not rule out fraud, I know/knew a small business owner who for nearly two decades his business was applying for grants. All that time his business kept failing and in all that time he lived comfortably and with little intent on making his business fully self supporting.
The defining line between foolish/sleazy/and fraud is often is less so stated and implied intent but a proven track record that begs the question.
I can say my intent is to make a supper leet procedural content generated mmo and then convince people to give me enough cash to live comfortably for the next ten years ahem err fund it, And by and large it is not fraud until it has become apparent that there was no ability and intent to follow though in such a manor that has some likely odds of success.
It has enough markings that I would not rule out fraud…
(note: I quoted this only because it is the most recent… not to specifically call out a single member of the forum)
Everyone, if you’re going to be levelling accusations of fraud (even implicitly), you better have your facts in order and your research in place. Even the most rudimentary bit of fact-checking shows that this project was launched by a younger person - likely at or near the end of high school - without much experience in doing large production (or promoting such productions). There’s a far higher likelihood of this being driven by naive inexperience than by any malicious intent. As such, it would be best to give suggestions for improving the chances of success for such a project rather than attacking this person with accusations of fraud and scammery.
Should the descriptive text on the campaign page be more clear about not having any affiliation with the Blender Institute? Absolutely. Would it have been more effective to first contact the Blender Institute, informing them of the intent to do this (as the people from the Sintel game did)? For sure. Should this person have attempted to engage and sign-on one or more high-level Blender artists with a track record of success? Most assuredly. These are the kinds of recommendations we should be making. The idea in and of itself isn’t a bad one. It’s what licencing under the Creative Commons is all about. This attempt has been executed poorly. We should be encouraging this person to try again, but with more effective tactics that would lead to greater success.
^^ What he said ^^
- would the assets reused in the sequel also have to use the same copyrights?
- a mash up of all current BF Open films would be cool
After reading Fweeb’s comment I almost felt sorry for all the slack this so-called “kid” has been getting but then I went back to the kickstarters page and saw 251,000 dollars.
251k, 251 large, 251 G’s!
It seems I’m still a bit hungup on the amount of cash this noob is asking for.
So no, I don’t feel sorry for the mockery, ridicule and negative feedback this “kid” gets.
this gif is for you mcla3d (Futurama Season 4 Episode 3 “Love and Rocket”).
edit: youtube clip is better.
edit: funding project got canceled by creator himself so another dream down the toilet. he did manage to get two backers with a total of $11. Probably his parents. No reason to post in this thread for me anymore, a shame…
That sum isn’t outlandish when you consider the budget for Sintel which is 400,000€. It’s neither a scam, nor is it sleazy, it’s just an incompetent kickstarter by someone who clearly has no idea what they’re doing.
I don’t know, fraud or misrepresentation is not something I would rule out, Just based on the amount they were asking. But even assuming ignorance over malice in this case. It does not fill me with confidence And it still leaves me with two concerns I would need abated before I would invest some of my disposable income.
First: Contact info, 250k is allot of cash and it is the reason why I don’t rule out fraud. Contact info on a project of that scope should as a rule be conspicuous as in I should get a little tired/annoyed at how often their name is dropped conspicuous. That is 250 thousand reasons the OP is asking for trust, The OP can trust us enough with their name as a matter of reciprocity, Now That could be a matter of ignorance and that does not improve the likelihood that the project will succeed.
Next: As there is already premade assets. (Both Sintel and a quite a few freebies from blendswap and turbo squid) I would like to see some mock-ups. Make some scratch audio and do some render in open gl to show me that there is at least some story/script to work from. Show me some talent, I don’t care about lip sync or polished animation/scenes at that point. Well maybe one polished scene. I just want to see that the money is going to something I can define. Amorphous holes cause me to worry and ask uncomfortable questions.
Do I hope the kid sits down for a couple months with some assets and tosses together a scene and animation, oh hell yes. Come back when there is something to show. Give us a reason to want to invest in you and most likely many of us will skip a few cups of coffee and maybe eating out once to fund your dreams.
<edit> Sintel also was making assets from scratch. for me right now its 60 hours start to finish for making a character, retopo, rigging (half assed) and texturing (like ass) With premade assets to use. I expect…something up front
Jumping on the guy with no facts and assuming the character of a person you don’t even know at all crosses the line in my opinion.
Fraud is an extreme charge to level at anyone. And if you are going to go down that route you’d better have a lot more than a kick starter page with some fancied numbers. And you should know a lot more about the business of fraud and above all have some facts.
Back off, show some restraint. Nothing wrong with tough, to-the-point critique and advice. But mud-slinging and disrespectful links/remarks are uncalled for.
The guy canceled the project which was taking good sound advice given here.
One can only hope he has taken some of the other reasonable things said to heart.
See that is the point, The guy in question gave us nothing to work with. And there is a fine line between saying someone is committing fraud, And finding something suspect and voicing your concern over what it may be. It is on the person presenting the project to balm those fears. As much as people want to be the leader they often forget that the leader is on whom all the responsibility falls on.
Now looking at the kickstarter page once more, Here is the things that raise red flags for me, And yea they are most likely (hopefully) just a youthful indiscretion of ignorance.
1- Language, It feels like it is targeted to the young and idealistic. Typically these are prime marks for scam artists. Its not wrong per-say to market something to teenagers and young adults. But there is a slew of ethical concerns that go with that. But this is a smallish redflag.
1A- The language feels like what would be used on a one on one sales pitch. Nether good or bad, But it gives me some feel about the personalty and skill set of the person who put it forward. It makes me wonder
2- It indicates that there is a team of dedicated 3d enthusiasts, Yet provides no contact info or documentation. A picture of 3 people around pc’s with a scene and some assets up would of done much here. This is a modest redflag. It is at this point where I begin to ask is this someone who is inept, Or is this someone with ill intent. It is not conclusive one way or the other but if they can not make convincing case, Can I count on them to make a movie? they linked to one so I guess I could, right? oh shit that was blenders movie. My bad.
3- The kickstarter opens what what I call vagueness of convenience, It indicates what the blender foundation did, But never does it indicate that this kickstarter is not part of the blender foundation. Although it makes it a point to link to the movie that the blender foundation produced, This one is a big red flag, Now it could just be an oversight. But this is the point where I have real concerns. Couple that with a cadence that has a crescendo effect and punctuates it with inclusive language. I don’t know. I mean yea I don’t know anything specific about that person in a face to face sort of way but. When I see oversight of convenience next to persuasive speaking It just sort of makes my skin crawl.
4- Just the raw amount that is asked and how little was returned in information. Not promises, But real information and some oversights that on their own individually could be attributed to ignorance but together begins to make me question.
But I do agree that the link dropping is a bit over the top. There is a huge line between having concerns and ridiculing someone.
And yes I may be a blunt asshole and I will be the first to admit it. But point blank I stated what my concerns are. And what is needed to make me feel secure in the thought of tossing my discretionary funds that way. Looking at that kickstarter it looks to me like someone had plans of bullshitting their way to the top.
But is it really necessary to continue this thread even at all? The guy cancelled the project 3 or 4 days ago.
The guy has long since gotten the drift I’d say. It was a bad idea.
Anyone with half a brain can see something was not right.
Just out of pure respect to a person you don’t know, trying to characterize him as a criminal is just out of line. It really accomplishes nothing.
I am sure if anyone else here was in his shoes would they not appreciate it at all. And foolish as his endeavor might seem to us, at least make this a safe place for someone to come and get answers and help.
As it is now I would not blame him if he never comes back.
Is that what you want for Blender?
Mods, I don’t suppose we could see this noxious thread get closed?
Agree with the two posts above. The project is cancelled and the thread is only getting worse with those willing to level accusations of fraud & criminality. It’s got to be going against forum rules by now - please close/lock it.
Agreed. I’m closing this thread.
mcla3d, if you have any desire to restart this project or another one like it, and you have questions, please do not hesitate in sending me a PM. I’m sure that many of the other people who offered reasonable advice in this thread would be more than willing to speak with you as well.