Good Luck. If you don’t fail with this (which I’m sure 98% of the people here are expecting), you will basically have proven the American Dream, or something…
Thanks BB,
I hope to prove you wrong, (about the two weeks thing)
and my current project I rewrote from scratch in under 2 weeks at 2-3 hours a day or less , and is much more complicated then 99% of games. Now I have a animator , and once I have a level artists, things should move rather quickly. (I coded the guts to chaos emergency in 4 days) you can see my progressions on youtube as I post alot of development videos
I don’t have alot of finished work, because I am waiting on art, I am a decent artist, but it does not drive me like
coding does.
I quite like the idea of the game engine getting some love. In it’s current state though, I doubt that your proposal will be fully funded. Would really love for you to prove us all wrong, Android porting would be great. Also John brought up some good guidelines, I suggest you keep them in mind. Best of luck.
BPR; to say the least, there’s also another clear reason why this may be wasted effort that others have not mentioned.
That is the fact that your Kickstarter and your own dev. efforts are hinting at a preference to build on top of the old cruft (with a high risk of breaking a ton of other functionality in the process) rather than the nice, modern, and clean foundation that will be the interactive engine.
There is no reason to prefer to build on top of broken design other than that something having a high degree of sentimental and emotional value to you. In software, you don’t knowingly build on top of messy code when you know very well it could cause nightmares later in the form of bugs and crashes. You’re letting sentiment prevent you from making good judgement calls and will lead to a major waste as the code otherwise would have to be thrown or rewritten regardless.
Sometimes you have to let things go, you wouldn’t add a second story to a house with a creaky wooden foundation knowing that the entire structure could fall into a heap of rubble, would you?
The logic code should be seperated from the render and physics,
the logic bricks can be used for SCA Nodes, and get alot more visual/spatial happiness
Full nodal logic would be nice, but I don’t have any issue using what we have.
Changing the render should not effect logic or physics,
changing physics should not effect the viewport or the logic.
changing the logic should not effect physics or viewport.
The functions things like the parent actuator use need to be isolated and be able to be swapped out,
separating python from logic, and physics from logic.
to some extent this is already happening.
What about SCA flow, but nodes can connect things like a property to a input to a brick?
like own[‘target’]---------SteeringTarget input
I will have to draw a mock-up,
This would be much the same power as full node sheet, but still use
You’re making all good points, but I think BPR is beyond help on this one. Look at the responses he is making here and elsewhere. No matter what problem is put before him, no matter who is the person telling it to him, the response is generally along the lines of “The BGE is Good, the BGE is Great, all hail the BGE”.
As much as we all hate to watch an avoidable disaster unfold, some people cannot accept any advice that contradicts their perspective until after reality itself slaps them upside the head. Some can’t accept it afterward either, but I’m hoping that BPR learns from the failure of this one.
Well, at least trying to see that he understands is especially urgent since he is betting his entire reputation as a Blender user and a forum member on the idea that he will be able to ‘save’ the BGE through things like making a full-fledged game in a week (even though what might happen is that it is changed into a more modern form that better fits Blender).
Also not forgetting that his brain is literally wired differently from the average person, simply letting him fail on his own could have massive consequences for him as a person.
You’re making a lot of assumptions there. Sure, the BGE might be old cruft, but all codebases eventually have that property. In terms of design, the BGE is still more “modern” (for better or worse) than the C-based core of Blender, which I shall assume will somehow be the part of the interaction engine as well? The current BGE also has the property of actually existing. Whatever its failures are, it is well-tested and (I believe) pretty stable. The “interaction engine” has no developers, no development plan, no design document - for all I know it only exists as an idea casually mentioned in various blog posts (and forum comments).
Here’s a good quote from an article about “rewriting from scratch”: “It’s important to remember that when you start from scratch there is absolutely no reason to believe that you are going to do a better job than you did the first time. First of all, you probably don’t even have the same programming team that worked on version one, so you don’t actually have “more experience”. You’re just going to make most of the old mistakes again, and introduce some new problems that weren’t in the original version.”
While I do believe any efforts to work on the BGE are firmly misguided, I also believe that waiting for the mythical “interaction engine” is equally misguided. Any improvements made on the BGE will at least be immediately tangible.
Dude, I am a normal person, just because I am on the spectrum, does not make me a robot, and my head wont explode if the kickstart fails, that has not even started yet.
I want to make adjustments for cost, and get some design docs going, with the help of the community.
facts like what needs rewritten, estimates, and docs.
I dont need a bunch of people saying it wont work because the engine is old.
the Sr71 blackbird is old as well…
it still goes mach 3.
I need facts about who may write modern shaders for the bge
I need to know long it will take, and how much it will cost.
I do understand where you are coming from but I think you’re fighting a lost cause now. Think back on how often BPR has been flat out wrong (and the serious, glaring flaws in his current proposal)… do you think someone operating with a realistic perspective on all that would demand to be told “just one time” he’s been wrong? “Just one fact” that shows why he cannot do what he’s claiming?
One needn’t go any further than this thread to answer those questions; which means he is just ignoring that he doesn’t want to hear.
Different than what we would call “neurotypical”, yes. However, he is not the only person on the autistic spectrum in these forums and some of us also raise kids on the spectrum as well. Without going into too much detail on the reasons why, if he is as he claims in this regard, you are not going to be able to convince him out of this folly nor get him to accept it is folly until after he has failed.
If he is wired as he claims to be, the BGE is clearly one of his “obsessive interests”, which means you cannot possibly (in his perception) be more knowledgeable or have better insight into the subject than he does. Which, of course, leads to situations like the current one where he argues with everyone.
your not arguing about anything to do with the game engine,
your not talking about how to go forward, or why you cant.
your attacking me as a person.
What if it works? what if hundreds of successful games come out of it? what if the game developers take a intrest in working on the bge development, or even working on the blender "core’.
what if they all donate to the blender foundation?
I am on the spectrum, but it does not limit my objectivity, it appears to be limiting yours.
Again facts about why changing the render of the engine, would not help the engine and its users?
yes, but its just the blender player and a zip, is the zip a addon?
I will take a more detailed look tonight, but part of the proposal is to move
to modern shading code to allow for things like instanced geometry and
static draw call batching down the road, for all bge ports, not just android.
BPR; There’s one claim of yours that can be proven or falsified almost immediately, and that is the idea that you can make a full, high quality game in a week (and remember, it has to be high quality and with fully functioning gameplay).
Take a week and do it if you’re so confident. Otherwise, why would people see you as more than just another person who thinks his ideas for Blender are the only valid ones that should even be considered?
I said gameplay, Art assets take the time, that art assets take,
I already have done it, Wrectified is coded, with the exception of a few minor things,
(door code - already written before but needs freshed up)
Look at how long it took me to recode it from scratch (no copy pasting)
I did append The gun from chaos emergency though*
Name 1 game that has that level of complexity coded in that amount of time?
(in game swapable actors, modular weapons, in game assembly of 3d rigid body logic nodes, vehicles, and assembled vehicles to boot. enemy robots fly by using applyimpulse and thrust vectoring.)
But this is not about that, this is about the fact that people can make great games now, if they had some GFX elbow room, they could make amazing quality games, and publishing to android/google cardboard could have them properly compensated for their effort.
Can you make all the art for a massive world in a week?
anyway, back to the topic,
What has to be done, or why should it not be done,
how much will it cost, and who may be intrested in doing it.
BTW - I coded Wrectified Rebooted a little each night as I work during the day,
It started on the 16’th - tonight is the 24th and I did not work on it every night.
at 2 hrs a night X 8 days = ~16 hours of actually working.
Because, as I stated, the problems in your plan have nothing to do with the game engine. Had you actually read and/or chosen not to ignore what I said - you’d know that.
I’ve done both. You chose to ignore that. I’m not going to repeat myself just for you to (yet again) tell me how great the BGE is, how awesome you are at using it, and still completely fail to address the problems with your idea (& potential solutions to them) presented to you.
No, I am attacking your behaviour in this thread. There is a difference.
What if Bill Gates descends from the skies on a Pegasus and donates his entire fortune to the Blender Foundation? What if’s are fun & all, but they don’t change the facts on the ground.
You still don’t have a communicator who can sell the idea better than you have been trying (& failing) to do in this thread.
You still don’t have a developer who can do what you are suggesting.
You still don’t have a clue how much it is going to cost you.
You don’t start a crowd-funding campaign lacking the means to sell the idea, knowing who is going to execute the idea, or how much that idea is going to cost you. Or, more accurately, you can start the campaign like that and it will fail.
These were issues I mentioned in my first post that you haven’t addressed… and if you pull your head out of the fantasy you’re constructing about why everyone is critical of your plan - you’ll note that NONE of them have anything to do with your focus being the BGE.
Really? That’s an interesting observation to make given the comments in this thread. Clearly everyone has their objectivity compromised but you. Couldn’t have anything whatsoever with you.
I’m making music and I will donate some of my earnings for Blender Android development. I always prefer to use portable devices over desktop PCs and laptops.
This doesn’t work. Doing instancing on mobile hardware would be quite different, because the API supported on most devices (OpenGL ES2) is way more limited. The same is true to some degree for draw call batching. “Hardware” instancing isn’t even such a popular technique, by the way. It saves you memory, but it can also be slower than just copying out the instances into a large buffer. Also, supporting instances has nothing to do with “modern” shaders. It can however change your shader pipeline to the point where you want a different system just for instances (like a foliage system). That system would then have quite different tradeoffs than regular mesh drawing.
As I said, you must focus. If you want an Android port, focus on getting it running at all, then consider optimizations. I’m pretty sure you expect way too much of these techniques, anyway.
