Justified Paranoia

@Ace Dragon: It is a similar notion that those in other religions subscribe to. A God who is infallible created man who is fallible. In this respect you’re not only calling into question my own belief system, but the very God of almost every religion on the planet. How can God be perfect and without mistake if that which he created is imperfect and rife with mistake?

At any rate I can explain this because it is in the very nature of man’s purpose that he is fallible and therefore his creation was not imperfect, but perfect which is to say he was intended to be fallible. If man was intended to be fallible than that which created him made no mistake in his creation.

It is of my belief, and that of a great deal of others too, that everything in the ecosystem, in fact everything in the universe, was created to fill a specific purpose. Where the bee was created to pollinate flowers, among other things, and the worm was created to aerate the ground, among other things, the human being was created for another purpose.

Because the bee pollinates it is clear that the bee was intended for this purpose. Because the worm tunnels in the dirt it is clear that the worm was intended for this purpose and fill it well the worms do. Because the human learns, invents, explores and generally seeks knowledge it is clear that he was intended for this purpose.

However; the nature of a learning creature is that the creature itself must start out with little to no knowledge and then over the course of his life seek out and obtain more through various methods, not the least of which being trial and error. Because the creature starts out with so little knowledge, because the creature does not know literally everything he is destined to make a great many mistakes.

A learning creature must break a glass vase in order to learn that a glass vase can break. A learning creature must burn his hand in order to learn that fire is dangerous. A learning creature must starve in order to learn that he can starve. A learning creature must build a house on shoddy foundations in order to learn that such foundations are shoddy. A learning creature must build an empire on shoddy foundations in order to learn that such foundations are shoddy.

If a creature has been created for the purpose of learning and understanding said creature must be prone to mistake and fallibility. If there is a God and that God is infallible then it was his intent to create a fallible creature ergo no mistake was made in creating such a creature.

“Why do we fall? So we can learn to get back up.” -Batman Begins

Edit: @Blue Print Random: I believe the human race is similar, though certainly not exactly the same as the ant. Where the worker ant digs and this work benefits the whole the ant himself has no idea why he’s digging, that it benefits the whole, how it benefits the whole or why it benefits the whole. Nonetheless his very existence benefits the whole.

So too is the human race, individually so many look around them and see someone they do not understand and think this person does not deserve to exist because they lack the capability to understand exactly why this person needs to exist. This is a mistake in my opinion, just because one does not understand for what purpose they or another exist does not mean they or another are worthless, instead they are worth everything anyone else is and it is only that their purpose, their reason for being is beyond our realm of comprehension.

If a hard working fisherman looks to see a man on the beach doing little other than walking around quietly collecting sea shells and for days and months he sees this other man doing little other than collect sea shells he thinks to himself, what a lazy, no good, worthless drag on society. In reality there is a perfectly good reason this man was created to do little other than collect sea shells and the fisherman is simply not smart enough to understand what that reason is.

The ecosystem as a whole, how it works together and how it came to work together so well escapes us, it is beyond the realm of human understanding. The human ecosystem is not at all different. We reward only those we think we understand, but leave those we do not understand to wither and die.

What if we did the same for the ecosystem as a whole? What if we killed off all of the mosquito because we found them annoying? What if we killed off all the bees because their stings were painful? The flowers would soon die and so too would we.

Oops!Linuxquestions.org” has “The faith & religion mega-thread,” with (currently …) 5,040 posts since November 18, 2007.

Do we need one here?

@sundialsvc4: Saying something like that could actually entice the site owners to desire a thread like that.

Blender-Artists, like Linuxquestions.org, is a business their income comes from advertising revenue. The more views this site gets the more ad-clicks this site gets thus the more money their business makes. If a thread based on faith and religion on some other site with a similar user-base has garnered over 5,000 posts it could sugget that such a forum topic might increase traffic to this site and thus increase revenue.

The way I read it, you didn’t mention a higher power (nonetheless a deity) at all, all of your posts were about nature, the idea of everyone being the product of nature is more in line with non-religious naturalistic views. You said you were created by nature and thus natural processes, that means that a number of your arguments can fall squarely within the views that exclude higher or infallible authorities.

You said nature was perfect, and that the societies of animals it created were perfect, and that it spent millions of years fine tuning the system to make it even more perfect. This would leave no room for the idea that man was created with the ability to exercise free will and thus the choice to discard the idea of following the powers that be above him, nature then must be sadistic if it decided to introduce a species that could potentially undo everything.

This is different from everything being created at a single point in time by a higher authority that say, made men with the ability to choose if he wants to listen to him or not. You may roll your eyes, but in this case, they can be brought back to a state where they are seen as perfect even though they’re still technically imperfect, but it comes with a transformation that entails genuine improvement in behavior as well as in the attitude towards the fellow man and very well towards the natural world as well (unlike nature itself being that universal force which cannot return to perfection what became imperfect or corrupt, which my faith also teaches the coming of an era where perfection is restored to nature and the Earth in general as well).

Anyway, there’s little room for more detail here without running afoul of the forum rules, check your PM box.

@ atr1337 The Blender Foundation runs off of donations as well. If you’ll notice there isn’t a lot of advertising on any of their sites. I’m pretty sure that their primary source of funding is the crowd.

@Blonder: If you check the bottom of the page I think you’ll see that Blender Artists is not run by the Blender Foundation, but instead it is owned by CG Cookie, Inc.

@Ace Dragon: I replied via PM, I left out many details of my religion which probably makes it difficult to fully understand where I’m coming from. My religion is quite full featured as far as religions go I can assure you.

Maybe it’s not a surprise, because politicians don’t like internet. It’s spreading news in a way that can’t be controlled like it used to be with traditional media. Before internet people had very limited information about what the heck politicians were doing and everyone just thought it’s something important.

From a single point in different. The sun is from a single point too. As light emited appears to Earth in general.

Attachments


@ atr1337 That’s a pretty wild assumption. Two things being named cookie is a weak correlate.

@Blonder: Wild Assumption? It’s written in grey and white at the bottom of the page “Copyright 2014 CG Cookie, Inc. All Rights Reserved.”

Moreover, also on the bottom of the page under the “POWERED BY CG COOKIE” section you can click on “About CG Cookie” to see the following: “CG Cookie is now a network of sites: Blender Cookie, Concept Cookie, Max Cookie, Modo Cookie, Unity Cookie, Sculpt Cookie Workshops and Blender Artists. All of these sites are maintained by the full-time crew at CG Cookie.”

Obviously Blender Artists is owned and operated by a company that profits off of web based ad revenue, the sales of tutorials, memberships and educational material related to computer graphics.

It’s all written at the bottom of the page, it’s not some conspiracy, it’s not even a secret.

P.S. My guess is that aside from ad revenue the primary reason they operate Blender Artists is because it helps bring in new users to the Blender software suite, CG Cookie sells tutorials for Blender and new Blender users means new tutorial sales for their business. CG Cookie is what you might call a barnacle, they piggy back off of the success of other products such as Blender, 3D Studio Max and Unity.

The relationship between CG Cookie and Blender is largely symbiotic, they help bring in new users to Blender because it helps bring in new tutorial sales, but a side effect of this is that some of these new users may also become donors to the Blender Foundation, which is an entirely separate non-profit organization that has nothing to do with Blender Artists except for the fact that they fund the development of Blender which Blender Artists is centralized around.

P.P.S. Blender Artists is an advertisement for Blender Cookie. You could say that posters to this site are, in effect, underpaid spokespeople for Blender Cookie. It’s funny too, it’s like when a person pays $30 for a T-Shirt that has “Nike” written across it. The person has become a walking advertisement for Nike and better yet for Nike the spokesperson is paying them as opposed to the other way around.

P.P.P.S. On that note did you know that Facebook is not a social network? Haha, Facebook is a sophisticated ‘word of mouth’ advertising platform.

I personally have no problem with BA being run by CG Cookie, if not mainly for the reason that they literally saved BA (and by extension a rather good chunk of Blender’s support and feedback capacity) from oblivion when Goofster (the old administrator) couldn’t give the site the attention it needed even after it went down for an extended period of time.

The ads in general allow this site to add features that are free of use for members and help keep the large amount of needed bandwidth flowing.

Also, when it comes to Facebook, a lot of people I know really do use it to keep up to date on what’s going on with other people (saves you from spending hours on the phone), and anyone can get a business page on that site to advertise what they do (and if you make a lot of money, you can start buying ad space). I know there’s the whole ‘you are the product’ allegation, but they’re a for-profit company with their big product being a free service and they have to have a way to make money so they can develop new concepts and keep the servers running (the alternative would be to turn the site into a premium service where you pay by the month to have your own page and there’s no telling just how large the backlash would be).

Also, case in point, Twitter has never made a profit during its entire existence because of the fact that their entire product is free. Unless they can find ways to bring in more revenue, they will go out of business the moment they run out of the money they get from their investors.

Just by hosting projects and team projects, people make movies, games, and content, and then donate to blender.org, without the “networking” much of this would not happen.

I didn’t mean to imply thay I had a problem with BA being owned by CG Cookie, just stating it matter of fact like. I did mention that CG Cookies relationship with Blender is a symbiotic one. As for Twitter, I imagine their investors will keep investing, Twitter is used largely for the purpose of word of mouth advertising campaigns by many companies, it’s essentially a donation based advertising platform, but the donations come in the form of investment. Companies love it, it’s very effective for viral ad campaigns, so is facebook.

Much like television uses entertainment to bring in viewers to see the ads Facebook and Twitter use friendships to bring in viewers to see the ads. On TV actors and writers are paid to create enjoyable content to bring in ad viewers, Facebook and Twitter are better because your friends create the content for free.

P.S. The ad campaigns are called viral because, like a virus, the ads spread from person to person. Unlike TV where highly paid actors sell their credibility to advetisers looking to get a trustworthy figure to hock their product, viral adevertising is highly lucrative because you trust your friends even more than you do celebrities, word of mouth is the most highly effective means of advertisement.

Now that I think about it, it’s interesting that you should bring up the previous owner of Blender Artists, I remember BA going down for a while after being hacked. Who hacked Blender Artists I wonder?

The police usually look for motive, follow the money as they say, who benefits. From this standpoint it would appear that CG Cookie benefited the most from BA having been hacked, the hacking put BA in a position to be sold off to CG Cookie who now maintains complete control over the content of Blender Artists as an entry point for their more profitable Blender Cookie site.

Much like how the police might suspect the wife of a dead husband if she were the beneficiary of a large life insurance policy I find CG Cookie somewhat suspicious simply because they stood to benefit the most from the hacking of Blender Artists.

At the same time Blender does have enemies, Autodesk or Maya might have orchestrated such an attack themselves in what could be construed as an attack on Blender’s supply lines, attack the community.

This would have been similar to what happened to T-Mobile a few years back. T-Mobile’s most profitable unit was their Sidekick service, a favorite amongst their customers and even celebrities. Their Sidekick servers were irreparably hacked. As a result of this T-Mobile lost a large part of their customer base putting them in a position to place T-Mobile on the market for sale to another company. The only suitor was AT&T who jumped on the opportunity to buy T-Mobile, however the sale was not approved by the government based upon AT&T’s refusal to present certain documents to a review panel.

A year or so before T-Mobile was hacked the AT&T CEO was quoted as saying the company needed to acquire T-Mobiles 4G network “at all costs.”

P.S. This is purely speculation, but it seems probable that Blender Cookie might be one of CG Cookies most profitable assets. Reason being that, unlike 3D Studio Max, Blender likely has a much higher percentage of hobbyists who didn’t get their education through college and are thus more likely to pay for the much cheaper on-line education. Now that Blender Cookie is becoming more closely integrated into the Blender community CG Cookie can really leverage this asset.

P.P.S. I find it highly unlikely that BA was hacked by someone acting individually. Individual hackers generally tend to hack large for profit organizations because their ideologies contradict one another, individual hackers do not really attack free open source software.

@ atr1337 No that’s not what it says. It says powered by vBulletin and part of the Blender Cookie training network. On the Blender Cookie page it says 2014 CG Cookie Inc All Rights Reserved. This doesn’t mean that CG Cookie “owns” Blender Artists. It doesn’t work that way. It probably just means that CG Cookie is producing the content on that site. You can bet that there is a relationship that isn’t near as obvious as you are assuming from that weak correlate.

You need to understand that there are different business models working together here. You also need to understand that these relationships are context sensitive. It would also do you some good to research different economic systems and business models. You might also want to research the logistics user agreements.

It wasn’t ‘sold’, Goofster simply handed it over to the CGcookie team, who was led by a long time member and Blender user (since the 2.3x days at the least) formally known as Mr Bomb.

The issue that he didn’t have a lot of time for BA was well known by then and was going on for years before the takeover (feedback on site operations took forever to get a response to). Goofster very well already had a good relationship with the guy and so it’s unreasonable to think it’s been strong-armed out of his hands.

Also, Autodesk seems to be a favorite whipping boy when it comes to Blender users concocting conspiracies on what the real motive is for everything from the community site going down to short, temporary outages for the main site. As far as I know, someone or a group in the professional arena would’ve already cited Autodesk for illegal activities if that was the case and saw to it that executives like Carl Bass would be behind bars. In a way, it’s a sign of community weakness when people would rather use conspiracy theory to explain why Blender doesn’t yet have as much functionality as Maya rather than look at the real issues that Blender has shared with general FOSS development over the years, from half-baked features that developers lose interest in to the lack of resources for things like reviewing to areas of code that simply become orphaned because the only person working on it leaves the development scene (stuff which fortunately is something recognized by the core devs. and is one the reasons why we also have a paid development team).

It’s also well known that some people will hack any site for any reason (I haven’t seen any evidence of a universal code that demands giving full respect to sites related to FOSS), and it may have been possible for the hacking to be done by an individual as I think the site’s security may not have been fully state-of-the-art either, this is getting dangerously close to Bao2 territory and we know how ‘out there’ his theories were.

@Blonder: This is insane, all you have to do is scroll down to the bottom of the page to read “Copyright 2014 CG Cookie, Inc.” Ace Dragon also says that the original site owner handed the site over to CG Cookie. The “powered by V Bulletin” part only refers to the underlying code that runs the forum. Notice it says “Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.2.” That refers to the underlying software.

Click on “About CG Cookie” listed under “POWERED BY CG COOKIE” and you will see that “All of these sites are maintained by the full-time crew at CG Cookie.” This means that CG Cookie employs those that operate Blender Artists and owns the copyright for blenderartists.org. Ergo CG Cookie owns Blender Artists among other CG related sites.

@Ace Dragon: It’s not a conspiracy theory, it’s merely speculation. I don’t find anything wrong with speculating upon for what reason something happened, Blender Artists was hacked, no one is arguing that, I was simply putting forth some possible suspects. Obviously someone hacked Blender Artists, what’s wrong with speculating on who might have done it and for what reason?

It’s terribly naive to suggest that companies don’t compete with each other on levels beyond the public eye. Isn’t this common knowledge?

P.S. From CGTalk “Can’t Connect to Blender Artists” thread:
“BlenderArtists has been experiencing some hacking issues apparently. They’re planning to go back online later this week (projected date is February 13).”

“Someone on Blender Artists said it was DOS Attack but I don’t know.”

If you search google for “blender nation blender artists hack” this link comes up http://www.blendernation.com/2013/09/09/blenderartists-down-after-hack/ but just leads to a blank page, the short description under the google link reads:
“The BlenderArtists forums were hacked some time this weekend and people reported being redirected to another site when they tried to access …”

P.P.S. “Follow the money” -Deep Throat

@ atr1337 It’s not that simple. They can’t just use the Blender name how ever they wan’t. I’m telling you there is a more complex relationship than you are realizing. To say that this is “owned” by CG Cookie is an extreme oversimplification. You are arguing empiricality from a loose correlate. What you suggested several posts back is far removed from the reality. You are making assumptions around weak evidence. You just haven’t done your homework.

Follow the money doesn’t work any more. Now it’s follow the resources.

Speculation has gotten a lot of people in trouble before ranging from the average joe to the heads of multi-billion dollar corporations. You invest a lot of time to try to prove something and then you get egg in your face when what really does happen couldn’t be further from your prediction. Even more than that, it’s lead to organizations and businesses in both the public and private sector to lose a massive amount of funds, even to the point of ceasing to exist.

This is especially true for people who spend their time reading ‘alternative media’ sites that lead to them spending their days speculating that everything that happens must be for a malicious cause to be executed further down the road. A ‘grand conspiracy’ of sorts that you usually only see in the plots of Hollywood movies. The CEO of a large company is not one who you could consider black & white, as in someone one thinks is just pure evil in terms of his ambitions on par with cookie-cutter comicbook villains, and if you assign that trait or something close to it to every other large company, tell me then.

At what point, at what size, at what amount of revenue or employee count, does a well intentioned small business owner automatically get filed away by some as ‘evil’ (this being regardless of his character, his moral strength, his business plans, and his products), because if all big companies are evil, then there must be a clear-cut threshold where they are assigned that moniker automatically?

@Blonder: So what constitutes ownership by your standards? According to CG Cookies website Blender Artists is staffed by CG Cookie employees, according to the Blender Artists web-page CG Cookie owns the copyright to Blender Artists. I fail to see how that is “weak” evidence, that’s about as strong as you get in terms of evidence. Here’s a bit more:

http://whois.domain.af/blenderartists.org
“the data in this record is provided by Public Interest Registry”
blenderartists.org:
Domain Name: BLENDERARTISTS.ORG
Sponsoring Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLC
Registrant Name: Wes Burke
Registrant Organization: CG Cookie
Registrant Email: [email protected]

Admin Name: Wes Burke
Admin Organization: CG Cookie

@Ace Dragon: I’m merely speculating, there is nothing wrong with that. I’m not saying anyone is guilty, just listing out who would be a list of suspects and why in my own personal opinion, there is nothing wrong with that. I don’t care if I’m right or wrong, I’m not throwing anyone in jail and even explicitly said this is purely speculation.

As for reading ‘alternative media’ I get my news from Yahoo! and CNN.com apart from my local news papers that generally only discuss things related to my immediate community, I don’t know about you, but I don’t find those to be “alternative media,” instead I would call those mainstream media outlets.

I never said every CEO and every business was evil, I said they were merely trying to survive. So sue me if I thought CG Cookie might have hacked Blender Artists in order to obtain them, it would be similar to what’s called a ‘hostile takeover’ which is a common term used to describe when one business forcibly takes over another that is not willing to sell.

From Investopedia:
Definition of Hostile Takeover:
“The acquisition of one company (called the target company) by another (called the acquirer) that is accomplished not by coming to an agreement with the target company’s management, but by going directly to the company’s shareholders or fighting to replace management in order to get the acquisition approved. A hostile takeover can be accomplished through either a tender offer or a proxy fight.”

P.S. I never said CG Cookie hacked Blender Artists, I said that there’s evidence to suggest a possible motive and then went on to list out what that motive could have been. When the police are searching for a criminal they usually form a list of suspects first, most of those suspects are innocent, but they still have to investigate them in order to rule them in or out. I’m sure the suspects get irked, but nonetheless it’s part of the process.