I believe Jonathon was refering to “Fanboys” in this forum as being a minority rather than legions of.
This is a very exciting community for artists as well as tech enthusiasts. I humbly empathize with the temptation to get sucked into a dellusional vortex of grandeur.
And I believe it is important for everyone in the community to keep a healthy check on reminding each other how important it is for all of us to be mindful of that if we are to consider ourselves artists, we should place a high priority on our individual definitions of what it means to be an artist.
I whole heartedly believe this thread is a very good foundation for this forum.
+1 million I think fanboys whoever the are, are been blamed for something the are not really responsible for. Maybe the mods could be a bit more active in curbing these things as well if you see a comparasion thread versus thread for goodness sake close the damn thing immediately I know cgtalk does this because fan-boys don’t exist only for Blender only.
I vote for mods doing there job if that is an option
Ah thanks, i misunderstood what he wrote.
Hmm. I’ve praised some aspect of blender here and there. Am I a fanboy?
I work in video games and it’s often a tough environment.
A key thing about keeping everyone motivated is to celebrate our successes. If you don’t do that all you get is a very negative vibe.
Blender isn’t perfect, but then again, neither is the competition.
On a daily basis I hear the frustration of broken and sub optimal workflows from max users, maya users, cinema4d users… and often am heard cursing blender for this and that…
I know that in the past I’ve been accused of fanboyism when replying to
“blender sux 'cause it doesn’t do X” type threads with working (though often clunky) ways to achieve the same thing.
Blender is special because we can all contribute… and do.
I really won’t care if anyone calls me a fanboy if I say that some part of blender is good or that some new feature is great.
Celebrating success is as important as accepting areas that are ripe for improvement.
People are people and so are devs. Is it better to say blender sux at xyz so fix it
or to ask how we want a feature to grow?
i agree with you. Why would I not use something just because other people using it are immature.
You can spot fanboys due to their arguments and the lack of logic used in their arguments. Fanboys are all over this forum.
Someone posted a thread about the GIMP, again, whining about why it wasn’t used in studios. Some people who have worked in studios came on and answered their questions - not in a negative or trollish way - and then they get attacked for threatening their precious software. The biggest laugh was that nobody would have even started talking about it if they hadn’t begged the question.
Here is a quick test scenario. I’m going to suggest a bit of role-play. Put yourself into the role and see what you would do.
Someone has created a thread titled “Why Don’t Professional Artists Use My Favourite Software?” In reply to this thread, a user has listed several things that your favourite software isn’t capable of doing yet that are vital to the typical workflow of a studio. One example given is that you can’t use the software in a print shop as it can’t handle CMYK colour separations. Most printing presses use CMYK files, so this is vital to be able to fit into a studio workflow.
You decide to answer this post. You decide to:
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Admit that, although you love using this software, maybe it won’t fit into this particular environment. Either accept this, or decide to raise the shortcomings with the devs as a goal to work towards in the future.
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Tell the Studio Guy that he is obviously a poor artist as if he can’t manually separate the image into plates using 3rd party soft. Their tech support department will get it to rip, that’s what they are paid to do. Ease of use is just making you lazy. Call yourself a Graphic Artist?
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Argue that the software is superior to any other software because it is open source. The guy from the studio should tell his boss and their clients this. Because it is Open Source, they will understand.
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Fake a screenshot of a CMYK colour separation using a plug-in with a name you just made up. The guy isn’t a regular user of the soft, so he isn’t going to know you just made it up, and you can hope that the other fanboys won’t rat you out as they want to be seen to win, after all, that’s what’s really important, right?
Ignoring that the fanboyism of Blender is a special case in the CG community is, well, ignorant. Its not just on this forum (this is a Blender forum after all, preaching to the choir and such), but the way that Blender fanboys react to any kind of criticism across the web is just nauseating. And yes, it affects the influx of new, especially professional, users since the community is a very big part of Blender (for better or worse). Migrating from another software, and mentioning that some things actually are done a little better in other software is sure to wake up the hordes of Blender zealots and scare away even the most adventurous soul.
The Blender community is a wonderful resource, with a lot of passion that can seldom be found around other software. Well, “Through passion I gain strengh”, but it can also make you a sith (unless youre Endi - hes more like Gollum), and theyre such partycrashers 
I used all 3D programs on the market for years. All of them, but I am a bit “new” with Blender. One thing I can tell you is that Blender users are far more realistic and nicer then any other 3D program users. I am really impressed with them.
I would go extremely easy judging them on how much harm they do. They simply can’t compete to legions of Max, Maya, Houdini, Cinema and Lightwave hard core believers.
Besides Jonathan is probably too young to know about all those legendary 3D app battles raging for years in all world forums. You have no idea how many dedicated or nice 3D forums and fine sites burned for that. :yes:
I guess this shows there is a fine line between enthusiasm and uninformed and one sided ramblings about how good blender is. Being blind to the shortcomings and imperfections of your software of choice can impair any good discussion. Comparisons of different programs, be it 3d modeling of other, can be very usefull as long as the discussion stays healthy and open minded.
Usually the discussion goes something like this:
- Maya has Feature X! Blender sucks!
- You don’t need Feature X. / Blender accomplishes the same thing using Feature B! Feature B is far superior!
- Oh yeah?! Well I’m so set in my ways, that I’m unwilling to learn! Implement Feature X NAO!
Admittedly I’m guilty of having participated in some of these threads myself. It’s juvenile and stupid to argue about it, sure, but is pointing out “the Blender way” really fanboyism? Most of these threads emerge from people trying to help each other.
blender does lack some features though, bevel for example. This is a lot worse than some fanboy roaming the forums
I’m not trying to pick a fight, but you will find that a number of artists who have spent a huge amount of time developing a workflow will be “unwilling” and “set in their ways” … and many studios who have unrealistic deadlines/budgets will find the idea of reconfiguring their pipeline to be idiocy. You seem to be talking about it as if it’s a character flaw…but it is really just human nature. The only thing immature about the hypothetical conversation that you posted is the way the opinions are presented… the facts of it are pretty much reality. Until people can go back and forth with ease, Blender will be an extremely tough fit in a realistic work environment.
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Or, in my experience:
A: My app has feature A
B: But Blender can already do this. Just use feature B and then a touch of feature C and work it around by applying a D modifier. See how easy?!
A: …
Fanboys, trolls etc etc.
There’s something else though.
Many people use blender for other than animation projects.
Such people may ask for some nice feature x of zbrush or other app.
Conceptual art is the more important. Other procedures may be time consuming but not really difficult. (I’m talking for the art of animation now)
Here comes the legion again to tell you that “this isn’t for animation or something”
I’m asking for a posing tool while sculpting in dynatopo mode for instance. Something similar and fast to transpose zbrush one.
Again, “you can do it with latices and bones” … but this isn’t what I’m asking. “No blender has it all”. No, it has them but it’s badly organized and not always helpful.
Someone posted a series of excellent IMO and very interesting series of conceptual art.
The legion gave him 3* only.
Someone posted a 3d scan portrait.
“this isn’t for animation” again. And again and so it goes.
But, such nonsenses happening on all forums around. Maybe with an exception of more artistic forums like zbrushcentral.
If you aren’t interested in animation then blender is not for you… Who says so? How does he knows what my interests are?
Take a seat and watch.
“shrinkwrap modifier sucks”:evilgrin:
I.ve recently tried a couple of the “Payware” 3D programs, (not mentioning any names to avoid some bull----) and although practically every feature you could possibly be looking for was there, I found them to be not very intuitive to use. That’s probably because I’ve been used to finding things in Blender, and these new apps are a completely new learning curve. But when I went into the forums to investigate, I found that there were plenty of complaints about bugs and the inability to find solutions to minor problems, just like in this forum. The main difference is, (besides being free) that most people in this forum are more friendly and definatly more helpful. Just my take.
true or not, when people see good reviews, comparisons, benchmarks, tests they have a better understanding of how good something is in relation to something else.
I for one really appreciate the " feature " videos that Jonathan posts on BC from time to time.
Another thing that is confusing for most newcomers is the fact that BLENDER is FREE. They tend to associate " free " with better.
So it takes them a while to " tone down the fanboyism ". At least people that need to be efficient to make money do eventually.
There is another unique characteristic of the Blender community. As “michalis” stated above, "not every Blender user uses Blender for animation.
An even more off topic example for Blender is software development.
- Blender is open source.
- Blender uses C/C++ and Python.
- C/C++ and Python are popular programming languages.
- Even if you are a high level Java programmer, it can be useful to use Blender as a platform for studying C/C++ programming techniques becase the languages are similiar in syntax.
So what I am saying is that:
if you are a software developer
who has no particular interest in animation
because Blender is open source
and because Blender has a strong and active community of users
Blender attracts software develops looking to build upon their portfolio of accomplishments
This makes Blender very competitive for proprietary software companies.
It is common for the Blender community to lose skilled rendering developers to software companies who recruited for paid work.
This creates tension within the animation software industry.
The tension to keep a company profitable and to compete against a community that successfully runs on a shoestring budget is real.
So if someone who is financially invested in a software company gets overly aggressive in promoting the sale of their own product and engages in “fanboy” behavior, it would seem normal considering the stress naturally created from market capitalism and the sale of proprietary products.
But for the Blender community, we have the luxury to know we work solely at our own pace and our own luxury.
By this logic I believe it is the fiduciary responsibility for volunteer participants of the Blender community to police our own to keep destructive behavior from a few individuals from harming the community at large.