How can the BI best leverage the community?

General Forums Blender and CG Discussions
21

I think that remark about milking the cow is a little bit condescending to script writers. The reality is that studios don’t want to run any risk, so they prefer that scripts writing is seen as a labor of love. Something that you should be proud to do, such that you see getting paid only as bonus. The fact that scripts writers almost never get paid when the script is accepted is terrible. I consider it a symptom of what is wrong with the movie industry. Because once you say that script writer is a labor of love and therefore script writers should accept deferred payment, why stop there? VFX artists also love their work, so do actors. Why not pay them only when the movie is a success? That way the studios don’t run any risk anymore?

It is terrible that this is the norm in the movie industry and it would be bad if Gooseberry mimics this. People don’t have to become filthy rich from making movies, but it kindof stinks that a small minority gets filthy rich and writers and vfx artists are struggling to make a living.

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I think open movies do target a certain demographic, but I do not know whether it was the intended demographic. I know that Pablo wanted to make Caminandes because he wanted a character that he would have recognized as a kid in a cartoon, no the same north american animals that are usually in the cartoons. So he specifically made something that he would have liked to see as a kid. That really worked! Kids love it!

BBB is similar in this respect. It is a movie that kids really enjoy, but that is also very funny for adults. Little kids don’t get the Rambo references, so that makes it fun for me to watch it with my kids.

To answer your question, I think the open movies should target a specific demographic and I think they have done so in the past.

23

Exactly the post I was hoping to see in reply to this guy who keeps shooting down something so basic. He always makes it sound as if you need millions of dollars to commission someone to write a script. It’s also an insult to a guy with a stature like Ton’s as if he can’t do such thing without spending thousands of dollars.

My main point was about the value of long-term planning, especially if you have a limited budget. Obviously, a complete script will make a huge difference in the overall grand scheme of things. And obviously, a complete script is one that went through stages of development, writing, re-writing, scenes discarded here and there, added some, the works. And they can spend as much time as they want to perfect it. No big rush. Taking also into consideration how Blender’s development would fit in the picture corresponding the type of script they picked.

I also think, at this point, Blender users would rather know in advanced what kind of script they’re making from beginning to end. And the real excitement is not about the revelation of the story, but the execution of it from script to movie. It will also highlight the artists work as well as the developers, not so much about the scriptwriter.

24

I assume you are talking about me, although matray has said the same thing before. I do not make it sound like you need millions of dollars and claiming I do is empty rhetoric.

All I’m saying is that if you ask someone to write a script, I think it is completely normal to pay him for it. If you do not have an additional source of money, paying a writer full time, means not paying a dev during that time. I’m not saying that will costs million, but it will cost you a few thousand euros a month if you count all the social benefits that an employer has to pay in the netherlands. Asking someone to write a script under the condition of defered payment and thus putting all the financial risk in the hands of the writer is unethical. The fact that it is the norm doesn’t change that.

Claiming that I insult Ton by claiming that he cannot get this done without spending thousands of dollars is a disgusting attempt to disqualify me. Ofcourse Ton can arrange this, but he doesn’t want to. He doesn’t want to ask matray to work on a script on his own time. He wants to pay people for the work they do, because he wants to be a decent guy.

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I’m not even talking about the current project. I’m talking about the next one, which is pretty clear in my posts, and I assumed this thread is about future projects. Frankly, I’m not sold on a director who is not interested in long-term planning and is very dependent on the crew’s input. To me these kinds of projects, with limited budget, should always start with a complete script. The director should demand it and work on it before even diving into the development waters.

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I am not limiting what I say to gooseberry. I just use matray as an example. Ofcourse it is better for a production if the script is finished before production starts. I am however strongly opposing the idea the th bf adopt a system of deferred payment as a means to get a script. I think it is unethical. And as far as I understand, so does Ton. That means some seedfunding will be required to produce a script. Again, nowhere do I claim this is millions, but a writer will cost about the same as a developer, so there is a choice to be made there.

27

@physicsguy,

I don’t think the options are developer or script writer. It doesn’t need to be one or the other.

But now that kickstarter has upped what people expect before donating money, I think BI needs to also up its game.

Seed funding and spec scripts are both viable options. Spec scripts solicited from the community ups community involvement and “opens” up the open movies more.

28

There were some good ideas for new rewards for donating in the GB thread. I’d like to see if we can collect them all for future reference. Add as many as you can come up with :slight_smile:

-3D printed character models
-get to voice a character
-a stuffed plush toy of the character
-tshirts

29

Too bad this turned into another gooseberry thread, but I think the Blender Institute needs to hire a “community manager” who would basically be in charge of communication to/from users, the media, and everyone. They would be tasked with organizing information on/about blender, getting the word out, making sure the right things are made known, helping with fundraising, and so on. The official blog/twitter of BI would become the central clearinghouse for information and news about blender and this person would run it.

If there is such a person now, they don’t seem to do very much.

By default it seems to be BN but they’re basically fans/volunteers and don’t necessarily handle outreach or anything like that.

30

@Kemmler, it’s not a Gooseberry thread. It’s a thread about us doing some market research and brainstorming for the BI. It only relates to GB in that it was the most recent.

But I guess we can’t forget that Gooseberry will be back asking for support when the pilot is finished. The pilot should allow them to get support from a much larger audience than just blender users.

A community manager is a fantastic idea. I think that in order to run lean Ton has to take on too many responsibilities/too much work for one person. I think it’s great that Francesco Siddi can take on some of that.

31

There’s not enough money to convince someone to get beaten up by the community everyday. No matter how civil one tries to be on either side of the fence, people still get their nose out of joint.

Who could do that job without being shot as the messenger?

32

It’s much easier to do that (take abuse without responding in kind) online than in person. If I am being paid to do it I find that sort of thing quite doable. Anyone who is successful in a consumer-facing role knows what I mean.

33

I do have to commend Ton, he always seems so positive and passionate in interviews.

I think it’s all about how you present the message. To craft it in a way that adresses, diffuses, and acknowledges possible problems.

The biggest problem/advantage is that every part of blender has passionate devotes. Each subgroup wants to know how open movies are going to effect “their” part of blender.

So don’t let the users frame the message to be that “thier part of blender wont get any upgrades”, instead frame it as addressing much needed issues that WILL allow their part of blender to be adressed once this stuff is out of the way. Framing the narrative has a lot to do with how people react to things. Put a posotive spin on things right from the beginning.

Francesco Siddi’s recent interview is a good example I would say. Very posotive and upbeat.

34

I consider that Blender Institute must establish a dual licence model.
Free for educational purposes and commercial for commercial.
This is the best possible option to let a healthy development happen.

You might be considering that currently there are not much developers, that there are not enough workforce. It’s true and I agree and I respect that despite all of these limitations developers manage all of these “miracles”.

But wishful thinking does not get us anywhere, things must be more practical and efficient.

Trust me, Blender is very good and capable software.
But the reality is that is has many rough edges and users can’t be heard clear enough.

I consider that this can be solved with only a dual and permissive licence model.

All of open source projects are problematic due to this lack of funds. And for God’s sake it’s not the problem of developers but the problem of that there can’t be established an efficient model to solve these problems.

My point is very important. Do you want the Blender Institute to establish a team with 40 full time jobs (I oversaying it but still good goal to reach: developers, managers, testers, designers)? By considering a symbolic amount of salary 40.000 euros annually (I don’t know exactly if it is good salary, but I hope it’s a respected salary), that means that 1.600.000 euros must be established each year to let BI maintain 40 job positions.

Do you think that Blender can’t sell 160.000 licences? Each will be sold for 10 euros only.

Think about it. I know that this message will insult your beliefs about open source, but we need to do a 101 reality check, trust me that this is the right thing to do. I have been using open source software for a long time and I see that this problem goes and goes forever.

Open source users are not dudes that fool around, they work and try to be productive and even make a living. When the users have ideas and requests is not just noise, it’s something very important that needs to be taken into consideration.

35

(The following is a joke and not intended to be trolly in any way)

You are right Erroll.

The biggest problem/advantage is that every part of blender has passionate devotes. Each subgroup wants to know how open movies are going to effect “their” part of blender.

Best solution would be to strip Blender back to a modelling tool. Get rid of pesky interest groups.

(but seriously, I can’t help but wonder if the BF would just shut the doors one day due to intense passionate user advice?)

36

@3PointEdit,
Lol, that’d be one way to solve the problem :slight_smile:

I’m not too worried about blender. It just seems to be getting more popular. More tutorials are coming out explaining the more complex (to me anyway) parts of blender. The better training will allow better results, which will fuel more interest.

On a related note, I just looked at your youtube link and realized I just watched a 3 of your videos last week :slight_smile: Fantastic stuff! I taught my 12 year old nephew how to use the VSE during christmas, and he just used it for a school project yesterday :slight_smile:

37

@const,
I’m not sure Ton would go for that, (maybe as a last resort).

I think the cloud may hold the key to solving a lot of issues, especially with the subscription model. Using blender as the lure and the cloud subscription as the “fee”. It will be neat to see how they find ways to optimize the cloud.

38

Sweet! That’s really cool to hear thanks.

39

Edit: Wrong thread