What really irks me is when people get things for free and then whine, why do these people not BUY max or modo and then whine on those forums about the CEO’s of those companies.
Well, they do, but there’s less response.
I’m happy. Except that we still do not have a good FBX pipeline.
That is really needed in my eyes. I need to work with different software, so getting things in and out of blender is very important to me…
Blender has come on leaps and bounds since I first tried to use it.
There are things i’d like to see implemented - sure, but as far as I can tell, Ton seems to be doing a good job of keeping things moving along.
It is not an insult, And as I said I am on the nuro atypical side of things myself. If he needs feed back to self moderate then so be it, But right now as I see it, He is giving my kind a bad name.
Is there a stigma when it comes to mental health. yes. But when someones behavior is at the point where there is consistent evidence that something needs to adjusted. Its time to do something about it.
And I am tired of every troll I meet claiming to be on the spectrum, It gets old and it makes me questing the validity of it. If he has enough self awareness to preempt personal attacks at the end of his OP, then he has the self awareness needed to put his behavior in check.
Well, what is missing/not working for you? Have you tried contacting Mont29/raising bug tickets?
Man. Two pages already and I haven’t had a chance to make any popcorn! BRB.
Not necessarily. The Modo forum’s tend to get far more official response than the Blender one does for example. Heck, they even do podcasts addressing user complaints or subject matter. It was just a few months ago that the head of Modo got one of the most active forum members and told him to lay into him with questions, frustrations…ect on air. (http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/topic.aspx?f=3&t=107692)
The nice thing about the commercial software is you dont get the absolute disdain towards the community/userbase you find with Blender. Imagine if Autodesk or The Foundry wrote off their user community as mere “noise”.
Despite all that, one of the source for this growing discontent by some users has to do with the success and competence of the Krita development and how it compares to Blenders. Take some pride in that.
Nothing is truly free. Someone has to pay for it, and if a user donates or give any form of revenue towards the development…they have every right to “complain” aka give feedback/communicate discontent. Time also translates to money, putting in time (learning, using, sharing) has value to it as well.
A handful of people do move onto commercial software, though not to complain but to get more reliable development/product out of it. There is a lot to criticize regarding the “product”/software and those who run it. Also dont forget he opened himself to a lot more criticism through what he has said at BlenderCons…including the infamous “I’m powerless” comment…and then there was the assassination attempt by the ceiling…
@ACE, a poll is probably not the best way to go with this. Would be better to pose it as a “do you wish Blender dev was more like Krita” or " should we fork?"…ect
The are more opsensource project with single leaders.
But there are a few reasons why i like Ton, although i never met him.
- First of all, without Ton, there would not have been Blender, his company (in a time it was not yet opensource) made it. So we all have a lot to thank him for.
- For opensource projects to succeed, organizing the projects is just as important as writing code.
- Since even opensource development does cost, its good to see under his leadership, movie projects that he tries to get a funding scheme for. Not only that Blender market exists today, things are sold instruction movies etc etc.
- Now i dont undestand how he does it, but every Sunday i see him at the blender dev newsgroup, discussing topics. He has great dedication to Blender for years now ( i would never have such a dediction for years ), Blender does need such a dedicated person. And i have great respect for that, he’s a man with a vision.
- Coding projects requires leadership, i know this by hand, i’ve done coding projects too; some people are good in complex details, while others are better in getting a whole project done, not because they can code it, but they got a feeling for what to include and what not include, they create frameworks of ideas, and see where projects need attention (and put in a coder on it).
- While some might think doing a movie, is a bad thing because they think of coding priority; I think its very good to do such projects. Its like a reality check. Its still valuable to question, if i would want to make 3d Animation software; how would it be used by 3d Artists or people in movie industry.
There will be parts, that will be developed just for that single movie, and sometimes you dont know the end result of such coding projects. This time a lot was done with hair for example. It could be other parts of blender too. During such process people might come to better solutions; and those could get into main branch, every movie project so far, has shaped blender today. Sometimes features dont make it, they’re to complex coding, to buggy, or for other reasons. But there also things that get into the main framework, they are stable, new features we had not seen before. - In defence of Tom, some people think of ideas that never went (like colored wireframes etc), they forget that while on newsgroups they can be a loud voice, but Ton has to keep in mind the “Big” framework, so he will have his reasons to include things or to exclude things. So who i am to question his reasoning i just accept him, remember that people are free to still make their own versions of blender.
Just rent a coder and your done, and otherwise be glad to receive whats given free.
If you rent a coder, or code yourself > you can sell it on blendswap, or in the same spirit give it away.
Not even Ton said that the community is noise. He was talking about this forum. And it is not really comparable, because the Modo forum is the official forum, while this is not the official Blender forum.
No, he doesn’t. Just check a few of his threads to see the trend.
Oh he’s said worse personally. Gotta love those PMs. But thats besides the point, not sure how long you have been around the irc chats, but the vitriol can get pretty nasty at times. It has probably mellowed down a bit after the whole Gooseberry issue though. Needless to say, its entirely comparable. In fact you can leave some commentary on Polycount and get a private message from Jack G. (head of Mari development) or in Allegorithmic’s case Jerc. You can communicate with them directly in the live events or they will contact you.
The reason is 1) they dont really have the luxury to take their user base for granted regardless of where they are and 2) they are actually professional. I don’t think Blender Dev feels the need to be professional, and it shows.
Sure its all smiles and humbleness at Siggraph, met Ton there myself along with a few others in the Blendersphere (though they probably have no idea it was the “dreaded” SH in their midst), but its quite a shock to see such a reversal in behavior “behind closed doors”.
Anyways I think you defend a bit too much as it feels like you have an excuse for every form of criticism. At any point do you stop and think critically or take a more neutral or devil’s advocate approach? I am honestly asking this because the staunchest defenders seem consistent in their inability to give mixed reactions/feedback. Those criticizing ton or the BF here have been pretty good at offering both critism and praise during their time here. Because of this, their feedback, even if disagreeable at times, holds far more value and credibility in my opinion.
It’s so much fun here… look at what’s been acomplished by free choice. Sometimes it just feels like a dream.
Why is this shit not closed yet?!
The issue with you, though, is that you’re full of shit (not just in this case, in general). You just leave these allegations here - which are of course unverifiable - in order to divert us from the fact that you moved the goalpost.
You wrote:
Imagine if Autodesk or The Foundry wrote off their user community as mere “noise”.
Do you have a quote for this implication that Ton writes off the community as noise? I can’t even find one where he refers to the forums as “noise”. The closest I can get is this statement:
“it’s quite easier to design usability with small diverse teams, than have it done online via feedback mechanisms, which easily becomes confusing with the noise of hundreds of different opinions.”
Sounds pretty reasonable doesn’t it? I challenge you to find a single example of Ton dismissing the community at large. Until then, I shall allege that you’re simply misrepresenting something that may have been said at some point, without providing sources.
Okay, I tried to make sure that this thread wouldn’t serve as mere flamebait (which is why I tried to make the initial post relatively unbiased), some things to note…
- –There’s been indeed some improvements in the way Blender is being developed, but some here still argue that Blender is that badly run 3D software that they wish to get off of their PC’s as soon as possible.
- –There’s been plenty of other threads (that were supposed to be fairly benign and about Blender development) that people used to air their grievances against Ton simply because the project in question is not going exactly as they intended. Such messages were not an intended thing in those threads as it’s not intended here.
- –It’s very common for people in high positions to see their decisions critiqued more, we as a community must point out where things can be improved as it will not happen if we accept things as perfect. Blender follows the ‘benevolent dictator for life’ model, which makes this pointing out even more important.
- –I have nothing against Ton and I care very much about wanting to see Blender continually push forward, both in the quality of the way things are being run and the quality of the software, I think arguing that Blender project management is perfect does as much a disservice to the application’s future as arguing that it’s irreparably broken.
I did not intend to blatantly break the rules or speak in hyperbole, but I do admit that I often post things that suddenly come on my mind when I see other posts in other threads. If the moderators want to lock it, then let it be so, but we all must continue to push for perfection in the Blender paradigm.
They are verifiable if I post screen caps, but whats the point? You wont give a crap anyway and it would just cause unnecessary problems. Here’s an idea, act like an adult and just ignore what you find unreliable. Its only a small part of the post after all but then again you cant really just look at a post in its entirely can you? Moving the goal post? Did no such thing, but you are by trying to focus this on me as person… just like you tried to focus it on IP in another thread. Are you that incapable of keeping the personal rhetoric down? Stop being so irrationally angry all the time.
As for the rest, well irc chat is irc chat. I never claimed it all came from Ton, but spoke generally about the developer chat room. I made that pretty clear, and if you made even an effort to try and read things objectively you would have seen that. Instead you are just reading into things as usual and taking it to an extreme (and personal) level. Stop it. The broader point being mentioned is that its not all rays and sunshine between the community and the development end, it could be better. Focus on that generality otherwise its just going to be a shatfest and drama…unless thats your goal? For the most part people in here have been it fairly even in their tone and response, except for you. Try not to polarize everything with such vitriol.
I defended nothing. I just pointed out that Ton said that this forum contains a lot of noise (to which we currently contribute). I am sure that Ton doesn’t see the Blender community as noise, but some individuals.
This isn’t going anywhere pleasant.
Closed.