is there more tutorials on edge flow? by this is. isnt your quads suppose to be the exact size? keeps the mesh looking better? so when modeling from a image, should you extrude the same amount? unless you run out of room then yes, it would be then shorter or a little bit longer. and when your mesh goes from front ortho to side ortho, say a face cheek muscle. I am trying to figure out how to fix edge flow . I know the bmesh or bsurface I know what they do but haven’t learned what there name is yet but, with the grease pencil, it seems to help with topology edge flow over the first basic mesh. so I know I need to learn the grease pencil and this.
I am also looking into curves, not sure if blender has splines but also with nurbs and using the lattice to outline say a house from only one image to get the basic shape down. kind of like using the skin modifier for the base mesh in modeling what ever you are doing. i also know there is the magnet mesh snap to get a plane to shape the base model. but even though I am getting better with modeling, I think I should start learning other ways because it may be part of my workflow in the future.
I really don’t understand everything you’re saying here, but as I’ve said before in some of your older threads try to not take too much at once, this takes time and it is better if you learn slowly and methodically, instead of trying to get everything from every topic at the same time…
Right now you’re interested in modeling, and the best way to learn is by doing, so concentrate just in modeling projects for the moment. The edge flow, quads or tris, size of the polygons, detail and polycount, etc are things you will learn with time as you model different things. Try to make a face, try to make an animal, try to make a car, do some furniture, a house, some appliances and maybe a tree. Each one of those things will present you a different challenge, and the way to do it will also be different, so practice.
Also, I think I mentioned before, this book (Digital Modeling) is for me the best way to learn about 3d modeling from the ground up. Study it, learn the basic concepts it has and then with (A LOT) practice you’ll understand everything much better, but it takes time.
Bsurface and the grease pencil are just tools that will help you, but won’t get you very far if you don’t understand the basic concepts first. Don’t mix the concepts with the tools, get a solid knowledge on the theory first, and then you would be able to use any available tool.
About the curves, Blender is not very good with nurbs, so I wouldn’t spend too much time on that, is good to know them and know how to use curves, but they have better uses other than modeling in Blender.
I know, i think I do try to learn to much sometimes. I just joined the mastering topology course, so maybe this will help me with topology flow and learning how to model anything by either breaking down or tips on modeling anything. I do plan to get that book along with learning about shaders for cycles to help with bump maps etc because of the plane lighting, it doesn’t help with those maps unless you use a sunlamp.
but in my first question in this post. when I do front ortho and side orth, I seem to sometimes mess up my edge flow and would like to learn more on how to fix this say on a check of a person face or body modeling etc. basically edge flow and how to fix it stuff like that.
Texturing and lighting are entirely different subjects, so try not to confuse them. Shaders, maps, and light types are not relevant to modeling as a technique. Be aware of that.
I know, just when I model something, then apply a texture to it etc. i am not happy with it, but your right, i am going to start from the beginning since I don’t know all the rules and techniques in modeling.
I think I may be having issues with modeling because… maybe I am suppose to be using more transformation like normal and local to bring a vertices up,down,sideways to keep my topology flow correct on a certain ortho view. but sometimes like modeling a car I don’t see why i would need to do it because in side orth it changes axes but… then again my mesh has sharp bends so maybe this different transformations will help my topology flow. anyway, but I think this is where my topology and a start in what needs to fixed and learned at my skill level.
I’ve got to say, from a long experience on this site, that the people who learn the most and make the fastest progress are those who post their work in WIP or one of the support forums. You can get all the theoretical knowledge you want, read all the best books, watch all the best tutorials, but computer graphics is fundamentally a SKILL, and to master a skill takes PRACTICE.
DOMO79, one thing that is conspicuously absent from your threads are screenshots and blend files. Get to work, and don’t be shy about showing us your mistakes. Nobody started out an expert. Everyone has a learning curve. Right now you are not on a path that leads anywhere useful. Get to work.
if you see the first pic. my mesh is like that see the dents but I think since they have proper quads and there even I think once smoothed it looks good like in other pic of that one image. even the car and the elephant have nice quads evenly shaped. my meshes go to small to big to one vertices pulled over a little bit making it a weird quad. the images are off Google. I spend a lot of time looking at wire frames and now taking this master topology course. i am now understanding how loops and ngons cause problems and stuff. but I still need to work on evenly spaced and smooth topology as well though and I think changing to normal or local may help on some vertice pushing. . and that picture, my mesh is like that. so I think these are things first to work on. and i will post something. i think I will do a car first since hard-surface seems to be easier for me.because I think evenly shaped quads and working on how to use loops with correct and nicely put. I was just modeling making all kinds of size of quads and loops cuts everywhere. they were in the right place. but now watching these topology videos. it;s making more since.
@Orinoco is right, just get into it and start sharing with concrete questions when you feel stuck. There’s a lot of people here willing to help you and as we’ve said before in this and other threads just practice a LOT!
thanks guys. quick question before I go. does using normal or local effect your edge flow? or is this only used when rotating a primitive and it is not on world axis? I am modeling only in the world axis extruding up or down and I am just switching ortho and then pulling the vertices up,down,sideways and staying in world axis. if you watch any modeling tutorial know-body goes over this accept when rotating and I am wondering if it can be used to keep good edge-flow like in normal or local axis moving vertices why modeling from a reference image? .
Nobody goes over these points in the tutorials, DOMO79, because it DOESN’T FREAKING MATTER! Are ANY of these screen shots your work?
No.
You are asking absurd questions, and do not have the background to understand the answers, if answers are even possible, given the mixed up jargon you use. Get to work. It is the only way this 3D computer graphics stuff will become clear.
I study and look at peoples wire-frames on Google. I can model things, car and people, but I cant get the detail and I think now of these reasons. I did learn today so far that ctrl left click should help with my quads be evenly spaced on extruded and how poles and ngons etc effect mesh but I need to learn more about propriety edge loops and detail loops and long with nice quads. . my quads even though they were four vertices. they were all different sizes and stretched, so i have been looking at how peoples wire frames are. and I have noticed not just my quads but my vertices aren’t like these. there like pushed in a little bit or out just a little, but I see how it causes dents. anyway. i am watching the courses and taking the master topology course. so I think soon. my answered will be coming.
below is my modeling pictures, and there like what foundation pause posted. because I dont have continued even spaced quads. i have section big section that I didnt use when modeling thing like people or this bird below I started. the bird,female pics are mine below I had a car but the pictures are gone in my post. anyway. you can see how I dont have good topology and I am starting to know what good topology is, just having some issues keeping good edge flow .but learned that I like edge modeling compared to box and I am trying to mix box modeling with edge like use a uv sphere cut it in half like pacman and use for the cranium of the person head then try edge modeling for the face loops. I just found out about the skin modifier and using the mesh snap the lattice modifier. so now I am just learning proper edge flow and these new things I have learned along with the pictures I look at and like. like the one below I found on google. I wan to have good wire-frames like those.
I want to make sure so I shouldn’t worry about using say normal or local axis in extruding or moving a vertices compared to global axis? I have tried changing axis, figured it would help on my edge flow but, I get confused on either up or down when I got the mesh correct in one view because then, the vertices is either down or up in say right axis ortho compared to front ortho. ,you can move a edge/vertices up/down/over because of the u,v and I think y axis options on this axis compared to global. and using snap elements would help on the move as well. only reason I am asking this is because like I said maybe this will improve my edge flow since I dont have even quads in a organic mesh like a person when they could all be the same size but different shape do to a vertices going up,down or over.
a building wall. sometimes you don’t need unnecessary quads/loop-cuts if it’s a sold and hard surface object with maybe loops cuts on the angles for holding the smoothing of the corners, where in my bird image down below it would be better if that was all even size quads correct? like the elephant pic I found on Google below.
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and this axis changing for moving vertices/edges seems to be used modeling for 3dsmax or Maya, since I watch all tutorials to learn how to model something. but blender could be different.
I know the close you zoom in ortho the small the snap increments works based of a blender tutorial I watched. and if I fix my mesh to look nice too being even spaced. I know how to mark seams and texture so it would be nice to finish one project once I learn learn shading on textures since a plane emissions plane light, doesn’t help with bump maps compared to a sunlamp and I basically use environment hdr images for lighting so my maps don’t come out with my project.
render layers and color grade would be cool to for composting to see my finish animation/project so that’s why I ask questions and not stay ion just modeling for right now.
. I know that in my modeling I need to fix my quads. make them even and vertices even on a curve say a person hip the curve they have .i get dents in my mesh sometimes and the only way to fix it is to re-due that part to where I would like to learn how to fix the vertices as they stand in that edge flow. I know I should start-using the snapping tool tool to because of the snapping and making even extrudes. snapping tool and the magnetic snapping that changes a plane by the mesh it lands on shape and can help align my objects if so.
. so now I am filling in details on other software I learned say the different axis for extruding and questions about blenders texture and composting to make my project. like my planks and uv question. you guys said it was my perception and I should get a texture that wasn’t zoomed in. so on my planks below … I know (here we go) lol but i have to say this.lol that it doesn’t matter about uv scaling it up to the artist perception but it contradict itself since uv’s aren’t suppose to be stretched and I know a uv grid squares you can adjust this but with a texture image. uv scale fix this. . so it hard to learn on questions like that when 3d space is the same in all software and topology rules are the same. say for an example I thought you always wanted quads in a mesh it helps make easier deformation but, then on poles, it helps redirect loop cuts to go a certain way and help with animation of closing and opening of the eyes. but quads should be used most of the time in modeling? . and on real size my first project I posted people told me to model in real world size because my fence was like half the size of a house when it was a bridge fence so it was like 6-7 ft tall when it should have been 3-4 ft tall. so that’s why I ask these questions about uv scale. real world scale and texture shaders since environment light with bump maps. I also need to learn baking to transfer high poly to low poly and I know there is a floating geometry but does this help in say bolts in a whole inside the mesh? .
also, whats wrong with my jargon. I need to know so i can fix it. I hope I am not bothering people, just trying to understand these questions . I mean you give a answer but you say nobody cares or I don’t know enough to ask these questions. but isnt transformations. uv stretching and a flat light compared to a sun lamp basic questions for modeling in edit mode and uv islands/ textures? . like would doing project from view make my islands all the same scale since it doesn’t when I have a marked plank? then would that fit the whole uv space instead of stretching the uv’s? oh more in debt post below I forgot to reply with quote. did you see the bird and female topology i posted. I wanted to show you in where I stand. I know my mesh isn’t suppose to have loop cuts say in the middle. so I should make the bird all even meshes. the female model I seem to get the basic shape and now I am trying to learn the detail like the knee cap and it has a certain loop for animation, the neck, arms and so on. I hope I am not making you mad. I am only trying to understand so I can learn. so don’t think I am complaining or anything. also, you said I should post my work in the WIP. what forum is that? so don’t post here in modeling? maybe it’s me. but I think a lot of people don’t want to answer my questions and find me annoying. I get annoyed the too when these basic questions cant get answered. that’s why I switch to another room like basics to maybe get a answer. . I will get like 500 views and maybe a answer or to in like 3 days when there is 40 something in the modeling room at the time. so curiouse on the WIP you mentioned.
As has been said many times prior in this thread, find an object model it and post some screenshots in WIP or Focused Crits, you will only learn by modelling. Stop worrying how to get it perfect from the start because you will not. As you go along people will assist and point out your mistakes. Stop worrying about UV’s and textures and world co ords, just model something and post it.
The pictures you posted of the elephant and the car are misguiding you it seems.
The elephant obviously has turbosmooth on it. The wireframe that you see on it is the same as you would if you turned on “Optimal Display” in Blender. That’s not the real wireframe, or even the smoothed wireframe (it would be 3-4x as dense). But simply a sort of approximation.
If you are working with SubSurf you will want to keep your base mesh of low density. For example on the car body he probably started out with very few polygons and then applied Turbosmooth which makes everything look nice and flowing, and will give those evenly spaced quads (at an iteration of one or two).
Seems like you’re getting a bit caught up in the wrong things. If you are doing low polygon stuff for games and won’t use Subsurf it doesn’t matter so much how your polygons look because you can get away with far more. Aside from it looking nicer that would be the only reason.
Try to primarily work in the 3D view as opposed to the orthogonal views as it gives the best idea of what’s happening. I use the 2d views specifically when I need to translate something along 1 or 2 axis but exclude the other.
And you should post more of your work and ask specific questions, and ALSO take things one at a time, don’t get into UV’s or texturing or lighting until you can handle making basic models reliably.
I know I do worry to much and should only focus on modeling and with that being said. I am taking the master topology course and it helps a lot. I am learning how poles work and what they and ngons do to a loop cut etc. but what I really need help on for right now until I learn how to use these methods is I guess even spacing extrude and moving to get nice even quads for the smooth.
I figured to use the ctrl or ctrl shift along with the RMB to have even extrude and movement of my vertices and edges through the entire mesh. to fix this along with increment snapping and it tools like vertices and median/volume. on but… when I fix some vertices. so when moving the vertices to outline the front torso of the stomach muscles or something " using the snap in increments or ctrl button should help? I get dents in my mesh and I try to fix it bye eye but cant sometimes. so it is easier for me to erase that area and start over for the edge flow say on a curve of a hip on a human model or stomach going to front to side view. things like that.
thats why I was wondering about local and normal axis would help compared to only modeling in global when I switch views and need to move a vertices over/up/down etc.
I started a year ago and this is my knowledge so far. so i feel behind but then some people say it sometimes takes 10 years so i am not doing bad but since its my passion I am just asking questions that maybe would fix my edge flow I guess.
to me, I think my topology needs fixing by even extrudes so my quads are even and not really big/really small or long . that’s why I liked that elephant model but like you said… it has smooth modifier on .and I know that I am trying to get that result in my edge flow though.
I am practicing using the cage with the subsurface on to level 2 while modeling to learn better form. still having issues with vertices aliments/good flow in what I mentioned and causing dents in mesh. so would snapping and increments basically be where to start and maybe fix my issue ?
sorry for the questions and right now I planned to study the master topology to learn more about detail loops and poles, ngons etc. along with the snapping tool and its options to hopefully better my topology for even extrudes and moving vertices/edges. but need to know if this is my problem in modeling you know?
Start out simple. Take a shot at modeling this coffee mug and post some screenshots of your finished wires. A concrete example of a real world object is worth 10 topology theories.
I need to learn snapping to other objects 3 pics are the car I am working on. I am thinking about trying box modeling and then break up the panels that way, or do the bottom belly pan. the pillar and roof. then start aligning and combining mesh when I do the door and the hood. when I do it by pieces I find that I dot have many loop cuts or extrudes. that’s why it’s in pieces and not aligning. but maybe this can give you idea in where my topology is at.
Course you wouldn’t want this mess for avatars and such.
