Please explain. Quick question about lamp UI elements in 3D view.

Coming back to blender after about a year and need some help understanding why lamps appear the way they do in the 3D View area.

I was trying to select an object in Object Mode using box select and kept selecting the lamp in my scene even though it was well out of the way of the selection box. I noticed that the line that connects from the lamp to the grid floor ends at an orange dot, like the dots used to mark the origin of objects.

I do not remember this dot being part of the lamp before. It is really bugging me and keeps getting in the way when I’m selecting objects in the 3D View area. I’ve looked at numerous tutorials for lighting, UI, and the Cycles render engine and can’t find an explanation of its purpose.

I know there are many ways to work around this annoyance but I would greatly appreciate an explanation.

What does the orange dot of the lamp signify and what kind of functionality does it provide?

Is there some kind of advantage to selecting the lamp from the grid floor by using this dot?

Thank you.

I noticed that the line that connects from the lamp to the grid floor ends at an orange dot, like the dots used to mark the origin of objects.
Show us what you mean. For lamps the origin dot is as it’s always been, at the lamps location just like any other object
If you don’t want to select lamps just make them unselectable in the outliner window (arrow icon)

Thank you for responding.

I would show you what I mean but I am a new user and, as far as I can tell, am not allowed to post URLs. It seems as if you know exactly what I’m talking about regardless.

I know many ways to work around the problem.

I just really would appreciate an explanation as to why the lamp origin behaves the way it does. I am a new Blender user, but the lamp object is the only thing I’ve placed into a scene where moving the object along the z-axis does not change the z-coordinate of the origin. The origin is locked to the x-y plane at z = 0 (the grid floor). The origin will move with the lamp along the y-axis and x-axis but does not move along the z-axis no matter how far you move the lamp above or below the grid floor.

If the answer is just, “That’s just the way lamps and their origins were implemented into Blender,” and there is no logical explanation as to why the lamp origin behaves differently than the origins of every other object I have placed into a scene, I can choke that answer down. I just find it really hard to believe.

Because it behaves differently, say from like the origin of a cube, it seems logical to me that the lamp origin was designed the way it was for a different purpose, or to provide some different specific advantage, or to represent something different to the user. I just cannot seem to think of it.

If I place a cube at the (0, 0, 0) and move it to (1, 1, 1), the origin and the cube move together to (1, 1, 1). If I move the lamp to (1, 1, 1) the origin of the lamp moves to (1, 1, 0). It cannot be moved along the z-axis. Why not? What is the purpose/reasoning behind restricting the lamp origin to the x-y plane at z = 0 (the grid floor)?

Thank you.

“That’s just the way lamps and their origins were implemented into Blender,” and there is no logical explanation as to why the lamp origin behaves differently than the origins of every other object I have placed into a scene

They behave the same as other objects

If I place a cube at the (0, 0, 0) and move it to (1, 1, 1), the origin and the cube move together to (1, 1, 1). If I move the lamp to (1, 1, 1) the origin of the lamp moves to (1, 1, 0). It cannot be moved along the z-axis. Why not? What is the purpose/reasoning behind restricting the lamp origin to the x-y plane at z = 0 (the grid floor)?
Lamps are not limited to the X/Y plane, they can be placed just like any other object
See demo: http://screencast.com/t/HJrHtIcuJ

You need to show a screenshot of the whole blender interface (they are permitted) and supply a link to an example blend file that shows your problem so we can understand what you are talking about since we cannot be talking about the same thing

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Not really sure how to show you a screenshot without posting a URL. I don’t post much on forums. However, the Blender UI is the most unintuitive UI of any piece of software I have ever been exposed to and I cannot seem to accomplish the simplest of tasks (like using box select to select a couple vertices) without complications, so here I am.

When I say “lamp” I guess I am talking specifically about the point lamp to keep things super simple.

I think the misunderstanding stems from me calling this dot on the lamp it’s origin when it might not be the origin of the lamp.

I never said that lamps were limited to the x-y plane. I said that their origins are restricted to the x-y plane.

This is so simple a screenshot really is overkill. Not sure why one is necessary anyways when the demo you linked in your last post (and in the quote from your post) shows what I’m talking about very clearly. Put a lamp in a blank scene and look at it. Click the link you just posted about the lamp demo. Look at the lamp. There’s a line that connects from the lamp to the grid floor. Not sure how you do not see it. Maybe my Blender UI is screwed up and also the UI of the person doing the demo in the link you posted.

Believe it or not, this line connects to the x-y plane at z = 0 (the grid floor). This can be clearly seen in the link of the demo. You can see the demo person move the location coordinates of the lamp, you can see the lamp move, you can see the line move with the lamp. Maybe not apparent in the demo you linked, but where this line meets the grid floor there is a dot. This is the dot I am referring to as the “origin”.

Picture this. I have a lamp at (0, 0, 10,000). I am zoomed in on my scene around (0, 0, 0) where I have a few objects placed. The lamp is 10,000 units directly above the spot in my scene these objects are, a considerable distance out of my view. I then use box select to select these objects I have placed at (0, 0, 0) in my scene to adjust their positions a little. Because the “origin”, as I am referring to it, is locked to the x-y plane at z = 0 (the grid floor), it is also inside the bounds of my box select while I am selecting the other objects, causing me to accidentally select the lamp along with the objects. So, when I go to adjust the positions of the objects, the lamp moves along with them, which I did not want to happen. What advantage does this provide? The lamp itself is 10,000 units off screen but can still be accidentally selected and moved?

If I take a cube and move it 10,000 units off screen then I will forget it exists. There’s no way I can accidentally select it with a box select unless I zoom way out. Why are the lamps so different?

Sorry if I sound snappy. I come from a technical background but I have never used any software or development platform that was so poorly documented. It is almost unbearably frustrating.

I do appreciate your help.

If by dot/origin you mean the red and white circle, that is not an origin (it is the 3d cursor) and has nothing to do with the lamps. The lamp origin is the location in the transform settings and the icon in the 3d viewport that looks like a light.

Sorry if I sound snappy. I come from a technical background but I have never used any software or development platform that was so poorly documented. It is almost unbearably frustrating.
Then you know how important it is to explain things clearly to be understood. Again show us a screenshot (post a url for the link and I’ll approve it so you do not need to follow those rules)

If you don’t want to select a lams with box select then just make it unselectable in the outliner window (arrow icon).

The lamp origin should not be tied to the floor. I’ve got multiple lamps in the scene I’m working on and none of them are. But, the bounding lines of their ray cone is visible, and if you click that you select the lamp. Is that what you’re selecting? Easiest way to get around that is just make the lamp invisible in 3D view.

There’s a line that connects from the lamp to the grid floor.

The line is a visual aid (Vertical Height Marker).
http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:2.6/Manual/Lighting/Lamps

But it’s more than that. It’s a selection aid as well. You’ve been selecting the offending lamps with it.

An orange dot is a selected object’s origin point. If 3Dview > Properties Shelf > Display > All Object Origins is enabled then all unselected object’s origin points will show and they are white.

Toggle off selectability of the offending lamps would be the easiest workaround for you. There’s a Specials Menu (Key W) but unfortunately it doesn’t include Restrict Selection items. There’s also no shortcut for it so you’ll have to use the outliner. However, you may be able to make a custom shortcut for it.

Edit: On second thought a shortcut wouldn’t work. A script might do it.

Edit2: Back again… what did I post here? (I was a zombie). Bah. We don’t need no stinkin’ shortcut.

This edit for lurking/searching new users if not you. Btw… Welcome to BlenderArtists.org.

If I needed lamps visible and selectable while I’m working and they were getting in the way when selecting other objects I would put them in a group. Create an outliner window somewhere convenient. Set it to display groups and collapse the header. Then squish the window down and scroll to show only that one group. Tada. A handy one-click toggle panel for all lamps (view, restrict select, render). They will all be displayed in group green, but that can be changed in userprefs.

-LP

Thank you so much. This is exactly what I was looking for.

Now that I don’t have to speculate on their intended purpose, I can think of a few instances where these lamp UI elements provide useful information and functionality.

I appreciate everyone who helped explain this to me.