blender or 3ds max,where to start

hello to everybody :smiley: new here,i have started my modeling experience in googles sketchup and would like to learn to model better and really learn what there is about modeling,but only modeling for now,not sculpting organic models,rigging(not really sure what it even means) or animating,just to really get the hang of modeling for now.

So where should i start? i saw on deviantART most 3d models are done in 3d studio max,but blender looks more advanced and has this miracle blender cookie site :D,so with what software should i start my modeling experience?
Iā€™m looking for possible books that i could read to help me in modeling and just to get me started of at a right pacing.

I see that there are tutorials on this site for everything but i donā€™t know if i should just stick to video tutorials or actually read a few helpful texts so i know what im doing?

Also it would help a lot if i could set my layout of windows in blender to be modeling oriented,so i donā€™t have the timeline window and all of that. @-@

Thanks in advance! and i hope i got all my grammar right and that i didnā€™t bother any one of you too much with these questions.

Asking whether you should use Blender on a Blender forum -> Blender. Although, since youā€™re a beginner, you probably donā€™t have any specific need for 3ds max so Blender it is.

Just a heads up, RMB selects objects; youā€™ll get used to it (or change it in the preferences) :yes:.

Modeling is essentially the same in any 3D package. If you can model in Blender, you can model in 3DS Max, Maya, Cinema4D, etc. Really only the operations are different, so you will just have to learn where they are in each one. None of the 3D packages are necessarily better than the other in that respect, just different. I have personally used Cinema4D quite a bit, and a little of Max, but I find modeling in Blender a lot more comfortable, and quicker, actually.

Of course there are people that are going to tell you to stay away from Blender, because the ā€œbig studiosā€ donā€™t use it in their pipelines(although they most certainly have), so if you plan on going to do this professionally, keep that in mind. It wonā€™t hurt to know those paid programs at all. Heck, learn ALL of them.

If you are going to make art, any of them will do. No one cares what you used to make something, only the technique, rendering, lighting, etc. You can make crap in 3DS Max just as well as any of the other ones. Please remember that as well, most of the crap that you will see was not the fault of the program.

Rigging is simply adding ā€œbonesā€ to your model to make it so that it can be posed. You have probably seen people model a character standing straight up with their arms stretched out to the side, and that is because it is easy to rig that way. With the addition of a rig, now they can pose their model however they like.

I havenā€™t bought any books on 3D yet, so I will let someone else recommend those for you.

Watch and read EVERYTHING related to modeling, written tutorials, videos, books, etc., they all offer knowledge, and sometimes different techniques to solve the same problem. The more you know, the better. Going back to my first sentence, you can also watch a 3DS Max tutorial and apply it to Blender, so donā€™t rule out a tutorial just because it isnā€™t for the program you are using.

To make your 3D view more open, hit T, N, and Shift + Spacebar to get rid of all the menus(hit each one of those individually to see which menu it closes).
To get rid of a window such as the Timeline, see here:
http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Doc:2.6/Manual/Interface/Window_system/Arranging_frames

Hope I helped, and good luck! :slight_smile:

blender :slight_smile:

first postā€¦ Hello :slight_smile:

I started learning blender a month ago, in order to make an annoying photoshop job less annoying. And it was long time on my do list anyway. Fortunately I had already ordered a book from the blender store called Blender Masterclass by Ben Simonds. Great book, well structured, only about modeling/texturing/compositing, kind of up to date (2.68) and 3 really nice looking example projects (There are really horrible books out there, where they explain the softwareā€™s features just by extruding some text in front of a gradient with lens flares or something similarly boring. This one has robot spiders and a creepy batguy!)

my very first online tutorial I did was this one: http://cgi.tutsplus.com/tutorials/create-a-3d-floor-plan-model-from-an-architectural-schematic-in-blender--cg-13350 because it somehow matched, what I had to do and gave me a little floor to stand on. and then of course all the nice videos on youtube, that were also invaluable by the time knew which questions to ask at all.

comparing software - I only had a brief experience with 3ds, when it went Windows 20 years ago and got that MAX appendix. I was so amazed back then about what was possible on consumer hardware. I lost interest in it a little for various reasons, but now I am overwhelmed again about all the developments that happened since then. As I donā€™t know about todays maxes & mayas, I cannot really compare, but in my personal opinion Blender is 1st place regarding usability and convenience and I donā€™t mean just among 3d but pretty much every software I know, that is a little more complex.
The GUI is so fantastic and adjustable, workflowwise Blender is just the best. (I am saying this because one of the tresholds that kept me from getting into blender were the numerous hate posts on forums and news sites that came with every new release, telling the world how horrible it is to use. It is not. Maybe it is not for everyone but it is so adjustable and fast and it feels very consistent (so far)

For the last weeks I have been in that mood again like when I was a little boy, getting a lot of LEGO for Christmas. I could just plug material nodes together for hours ā€¦

Yeah! Go Blender :wink:

Hereā€™s some ideas for you to consider.

The good thing about your question, you know exactly what you want to learn. Modeling, even more specific, you are not interested in sculpting or organic modeling, itā€™s hard surface modeling for the most part. This is great, it will keep you focused.

The odd thing is asking Max or Blender, as if those are the only players when it comes to modeling. Although both appz are capable, I would not recommend either to someone starting out!

I think in your case one of the most important things to choosing the app you want to start with is the ā€˜leraning curveā€™ of the app. That is a term that describes how hard/easy it is to get comfortable in using the app (no matter what your technical/artistic knowledge is).

Why learing curve? Because you know that itā€™s hard surface modeling that interests you, and you want to dive right in, spend the least time wrestling the application - rather learn the ins and outs of modeling. Granted, most likely, once you get to a point where you are very comfortable with hard surface modeling, you will start to venture deeper into 3D and explore texturing, rendering, sculpting, etc. That would be the time to re-evaluate all the other appz out there (and Blender!).

My thoughts on Max and Blender for modeling. Iā€™ve worked in a Max pipeline for years, never modeled in it. Used Silo for years, itā€™s taken me a looong time to finally make the transition to Blender. Iā€™m very comfortable modeling in Blender today, itā€™s got some great features. But itā€™s taken a long time to get here, not learning the ā€˜toolsā€™ (or to model, I knew how to model already). I used a heavily customized version of Silo, and I use a heavily customized Blender. Blender, having a real steap learning curve, takes in-depth knowledge to customize properly and make it functional.

Iā€™d be inclined to say try all the appz out there, and see what resonates with you.

I would recommend Silo (has a full functional time-limited demo) and Wings3D (free). Those appz are capable hard surface modelers and both have very good learning curves in my opinion. Neither has some ground-breaking tricks up the sleeve. Theyā€™re just plain solid poly modelers, and would get you familiar with poly-modeling fastest in my opinion. After you get comfortable with poly-modling, then you can look for appz that have specific poly-modling features/workflows.

To break down your situation even further, you donā€™t need conventional tutorials or such. What you want to look for is topology theory, and just study other peoples wireframes/topology. Understand how a wireframe describes a surface.

Hope this helps. Have fun, and keep at it!

This is a PDF that has in it a good thread on topology. Even though a lot of examples in it are characters, itā€™s basically just topology theory.
http://www.google.ca/url?url=http://pp.kpnet.fi/3DMe/maxstuff/SUBD_fixed.pdf&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&sa=U&ei=ZxhJVPyNL4aoyATZ9YGYBA&ved=0CC0QFjAE&usg=AFQjCNGKVqJCLMk8Nep1IBbO-7yoeHxtJA

Quite good and useful reference there!

I recommend using Silo and looking up Antony Ward and Glen Southern.

Having spent a lot of time in many packages over the years, Silo is hands down the most beginner-friendly, fast and affordable for 3D modelling. When you are just starting out you want as much help as you can get, and Silo keeps its menus, interface and shortcuts as short and easy as possible.

Great project ideas for the complete beginner!

  1. Turn that old snazzy logo into a 3D model: for example, load in the STAR WARS logo as a background/reference image, create a square, and using vertex/edge/face manipulation and the extrude/merge tools trace over it. Then, give it some depth, colour and render it in Blenderā€¦

  2. Simple objects found on your desk or study/bedroom/office/whatever. A mobile phone, a USB flashdrive, a CD case, a games consoleā€¦all great subjects.

  3. A complex scene made of many-but-simple objects. A cigarette, a lighter, an ashtray and a box of more cigarettesā€¦on a table, with coasters and cans or bottles of drinkā€¦put them all together and give them a render using Ambient-occlusion in Blender - youā€™ll be dead-impressed!

ā€¦oh, and avoid modelling in triangles where possible - you ideally want all your mesh polygons in quads. Itā€™ll help when you come to learn topology later on. Oh, and have fun! :slight_smile:

I wish you the very best of luck.

Well it depends on what you want to do ultimately.

Engineering or product design? Donā€™t use either, learn Solidworks or Rhino. The basic functionality is very different so youā€™ll need to learn how to do CSG modeling, mesh modeling is optional.

Just do art? Either one is fine.

Animation? Probably youā€™ll want to learn Max or Maya or something, as it will be a little easier to get a job if you know those, and solo animation is mostly a foolā€™s errand. Blender is also good for animation, but it wouldnā€™t hurt to know a ā€œstandardā€ commercial package too.

As others have noted, the skills and basic concepts apply regardless of what package you learn. If you want to switch later you just need to learn a new UI.

3DS Max is considered one of the industry standard software, but be prepared for the requirement to pay monthly in the future if you want to access your files made with it (referencing the announcement from Autodesk that their software licenses will transition to software rental only).

Blender as of now doesnā€™t have quite as much to offer as the Autodesk product family, but thereā€™s no hidden or ongoing costs and thereā€™s no restriction on what you can do with program output (in terms of art and animation), most people will also agree that Blender is pretty stunning for free software and there still are plenty of tools and features that you might find useful.

Yeah cause i occasionally visit blender cookie to see what great artists make in blender so i stopped by at the forums hyped :smiley:

And the reason i started searching for advanced modeling after sketchup is cause no more was i stopped cause of the knowledge i had about the software but the limitations of the software it self was stopping me from advancing.
So i guess ill start off easy with Silo as you mentioned and just work in it until i completely understand what i am doing.

well i hope mostly game design and to work for steam workshop.In my school i work a bit in solid edge making machine parts,but thatā€™s boring so thatā€™s not the way i want to go.
And the main problem i have is time.Since i go to school and have to study i cant devote much time in studying modeling for now but ill give my best to start of good. :smiley:

i learned to work in sketchup by pressing every button and seeing what it does so i know exactly how it works,so thatā€™s how i want to advance,by learning how every tools works with the model not just by watching some dude on youtube making a ā€œstep by step how toā€ where you just mindlessly follow instructions.

And i would like to learn animating,rigging and so on but one at i time so i donā€™t get overwhelmed @-@

I have the ideas and the will power to start learning it and who knows,in a few years ill be making awesome dota 2 and team fortress 2 items xD