Sorting out Sidebars

There current sidebars (N & T panels) are becoming rather messy, the areas do not have a clear focus on what their contents should be.
We have the operator settings tacked onto the end of the “toolbar” and important object properties tucked in somewhere in the “N” panel mixed up with editor and view settings.
Several tools in the toolbar are currently useless because of the way mouse position is used.

I propose some simple fixes to these two side panels, not some major reconstruction but just simple focussing the concept of what each space should do.

The mockups I have drawn are about the 3D view but the concepts could/should be consistently applied to other editors too (VSE/Nodes etc would be perfect candidates).

The first issue is to split these two side panels into further specific categories with another level of tabs or pages.

  • Left Sidebar - This is where all the buttons, action and properties for getting work done are placed

[LIST=1|INDENT=2]

  • Page #1 - Item/Selection properties: Currently there is no set place for these settings AT ALL, the result is that the settings are not-exposed or are mixed in with irrelevant other things. The proposed page area is intended for the likes of: Position, Bevel weights, Edge crease, Vertex group assignments, Skinning radius, Curve options, Bone options, Node options, VSE strip settings. This also provides room for parametric objects such as a generated tree to have their parameters.

  • Page #2 - Tools and actions: The tools page we are familiar with but I propose couple of different methods to interact with the tools. I describe this after.

  • Page #3 - Previous Operator Settings & Undo History: Currently the previous operator settings are tucked under a list of tools. This incredibly important function deserves its own space. It makes sense to also combine in the undo history into this page
    [/LIST]

  • Right Sidebar - This is exclusively for editor specific options and view options. NO OBJECT PROPERTIES

[LIST=1|INDENT=2]

  • Page #1 - View/shading option, global 3d-View settings (ie 3d cursor)
  • Page #2 - Configuration of editor (not drawn), potentially this could contain a-lot of what is shown in the editor header.
    [/LIST]
    During working you should not even need the right sidebar at all, except the odd time the editor needs to be configured differently.


To fix the issue of mouse position and odd workflow of toolbar buttons I describe three methods to use tools and actions from the tool page:

  • Simple click, this operates in the simplest manner and simply does the action with no other options (as is currently)
  • Popup options, click the right arrow to display options window for the action, is interactive in the scene. Confirm or cancel buttons. This method is great for doing actions with specific settings.
  • Drag and Drop action from tool page to viewport to initiate the tool at that mouse position, or add object at that position. Great for tools which rely on mouse position such as scale/rotate etc.

I will use animated Gifs to show the methods, they should explain. (some of the images a bigger, so open a new tab):slight_smile:

Demonstrating the pages

Demonstrating the Popup options

Demonstrating the Drag and Drop method

Demonstrating working the History page, Last operation and undo history

I have considered this proposal as a realistic refinement to provide more clarity, context and designated areas for clear categories of UI items but without losing flexibility nor working speed. I believe separating the areas like this provides room for the sidebars to be utilised properly and like we have not seen before.

really cool proposal!

Some good ideas in here!

check out my proposal:
https://mega.co.nz/#!hEsjWKyT!qZupv6…iisL5tKUOIm0ys

It has some ideas on the T and N. Specifically, merging them to one, and then add horizontal icon tabs like yours.
Why merge? Because floating panels would patch up the disadvantage of having one shelf instead of two.

no i don’t aprovethat u have right bar for that. and left for that putting that to one is not good idea.

The idea is good, just remove all the popups, and should be perfect.

One of the strongest points of Blender (ENTIRELY MY OPINION!) is that one shouldn’t bother with popups.

no because that clock stuff u have all this in F6 or change shortcut i have this as a shift+q and it works perfectly. Really this change is not really good.

thank god for shortcuts, most tabs/panels whatever are turned off :wink:

This is a great proposal. I agree that shoving tool operation options at the bottom of the tool panel is next to useless, especially when the entire panel is filled with addon content. It would be really nice to have that temporary side-pop option bar when you need extra options out of your operation, like the little square buttons in Maya.

Thanks!

You don’t have to use the history page or popup operator configurator, just close the side panel and operate as you usually do. My proposal is not about removing ability to work without the sidebar but about making the sidebar actually work for those who do use it.

Also consider these methods could be applied to other editors, where you do actually use the sidebar.

People who know all the shortcuts will probably only use only the item-properties (ie location etc) page and otherwise hide it when they don’t need it. That is no different to currently except that this stuff is not randomly mixed in with seldom-used viewport settings wasting half the page.

Typically I would drag the tool/operation options all the way to the top of the toolbar, and then the toolbar is useless and I end up using the tools from inside the header menus :confused: (unless the shortcut is known).

I’m usually pretty critical of stuff like this, but your proposal looks extremely practical and well thought out. Have you proposed this on the developer site? I’m sure it would be well received.

It looks like it builds onto the existing concepts quite nicely, I would approve of this as well (though I wish we can also have a floating F6 panel that is dockable and optionally won’t disappear when the mouse leaves it).

Hopefully we’ll see Johnathon W and William like it as well because they carry a bit of weight in the UI department.

Seems like a really nicely thought-out proposal. Lot’s of good ideas in there.

nice proposal… wait for 6 years

I’m not sure where to do that, other than the proposals wiki - which seems to be a place for outlandish complete redesigns, whereas the ideas in this thread are straightforward refinements on what we have.

Maybe someone could give a nudge to this thread??

I like it, makes a lot of sense, seems not to introduce any new problems. I’ll push it to Jonathan.

The drag-and-dropping of commands seems weird though, I’m not sure that would make a good workflow.

Thanks!
I think with the drag & drop, it might need to be disabled for most of tools, and on the tools that can be - have some kind of identifier to suggest it can be drag-dropped.

I imagine drag and drop of a subdivide or knife tool is useless, but for adding an new shape/node/VSE strip or more importantly using tools like scale/rotate which use mouse position it would be really good.

btw, you can still just click the buttons as standard, which is ideal for simple tools like delete/smooth etc.

importantly using tools like scale/rotate which use mouse position it would be really good.

I believe blender should just relocate the mouse position to the middle of the 3D view for those tools…

That is not necessarily a good position (ie if the object is center of screen). If going to reposition the mouse, I suggest position it around 200px from the origin/median.

It would work better than currently if you just want to ‘click’ the rotate tool.
However I do not think that suddenly moving the cursor would be very comforting - you’d need to spend a moment to get your bearings again.

I think for appropriate tools, the drag-drop would be a nice solution. By allowing the user to position the mouse you maintain the ability for the user to control the precision as they would usually, they know exactly what they are going to get.

For scaling, the initial mouse position is extremely important, so I think having a drag & drop for that is the best solution.

Well, having those tools as buttons was always weird. No one uses those buttons for transform…
But yeah, i guess they should be there… But, really, should they?
Drag and drop is really odd though.