Blender's next release getting new ui?

According to the wiki blender 2.7x is going to have a refreshed ui. That gives me a hint that we may see that new proposed ui soon.

http://builder.blender.org/download/

Test it out for yourself… tabs on the side bar… number alignments… and small tweaks all over the place.

The idea that there will “a new ui” is incorrect as far as I know. There is now a new ui team which is looking into ironing out certain problems with the ui. But this does not mean there eill be a new ui, just that the ui will further developed and improved again. But nothing as radical as the 2.5 branch. One of the improvements is the inclusion of vertical tabs in the panel in the left.

Certainly hope it’s an improvement, because how often does it happen that anyone says, “well, we were really wrong with that idea, let’s take it out…” Human nature.:eek: Again!

It will be. Tabs also allow you to pin tabs together, so no matter what if you want to pile everything together theres a chance you can. I think the tab mentality will spread across the UI though, and it will allow more visible accessibility and organization across the application.

Not necessarily. At this point we dont know how far it will go, but I have the feeling the UI team will be at it for a long time and Blender will continue to evolve. Some drastic changes are inevitable, the question is whether it will happen in the short term or the long term. I think blender 2.69, when compared to say a Blender 2.9-3.0 will have a fairly significant improvement/UI shift that can visually be seen.

no radical changes :slight_smile:

agreed but the new tab panel is a very welcomed addition. I love it. I hope blender keeps improving its GUI.

Blender will have a new UI when we will realize that we have to follow certain workarounds, make it easy for the user to follow them.
Before this, only some cute (like tabs) implementations will follow.

A translation of abc123’s post. If I may.

Like others have hinted, the 2.7 will simply be a refreshed and enhanced version of the 2.6x UI (with various design and usability issues being tackled). This work is also slated to continue throughout the 2.7 series so I anticipate that the next couple of years will see more frequent updates to that area.

This is quite wonderful - I guess the next couple of years will be dedicated to the 2.7 series, improving and fine tuning the program.

Oy vey! Another UI thread at risk of ending up a sodding mess of speculation and hyperbole… Heres a prediction, no matter how many times its stated that this does not mean a complete redesign, people will only read the first post, and reply with vitriol over this outrage(!)

3, 2, 1…

New UI - please not. The current system has a very good base and just needs refinement and streamlining tools.

I find the make a new UI approach problematic in two ways:

  1. what Andrew proposed also will break all the add-ons which make use of the toolbar in different editor windows like 3D view, movie clip editor and sofar.

  2. I hardly think that the BF has the manpower and resource to rebuild the way how Blender internally works - what Brecht very well pointed out as Blender being a collection of different applications in one framework (UI).

If look at Max Maya Modo Lightwave they all make sacrifices / compromises between screen space real estate and sorting organizing tools/commands.

The biggest problem in my view are the following two:

  1. inconsistent workflow and options. Andrew pointed out a nice fact about having the paint brush tools on the left in the tool bar but when you want to edit the texture for a brush you have to go to the properties buttons which are often in the right part of the screen.

  2. duplications of interface elements including incomplete tool presentation which makes it hard for new users to know where what tool is and what functions Blender offers. For example the difference between what the tool bar shows in mesh edit mode what the 3d view port menu shows and what the special menu shows

There seem to be so many tools why not to be honest ditch the toolbar for showing tools and rather do something similar like Maya with a radial menu. That would replace the specials menu as well as the toolbar.

This way then the toolbar could be mainly used for tool options etc.

I find the UI to work very well just need to learn where stuff is and that part is really hard for new users and in that case Maya or Modo make it a lot lot easier by limiting choice and focusing on few ways to show tools.

I tried a recent build to see the UI improvements so far and I liked the tidy up and the tabs.
I couldnt find where to change the colour of the tab text though and it appeared to have alpha.
Can someone point me to the relevant setting in the theme preferences for that please.

Not sure if that is already in the code. The tabs are nice to clean up the tool bar it get recently so overflown with tabs.

couldnt find where to change the colour of the tab text though

yeah, indeed, I would like to edit it, the first that came to me.
Otherwise, it is really cute. But that’s all.
A good UI means something else to me.

just needs refinement and streamlining tools.

like this.
+1

To answer the question:
The new release won’t have a new UI.
Just some less important implementations.

Ha ha, that didn´t take long. If I bet on horses I would be a rich man :slight_smile:

Not sure if you are sarcastic here or agreeing.

“less important implementations” I think you have to face reality also this is Blender and not Autodesk and I rather let them work on functions for Cycles or other parts than a new UI which might be nice but not realistic.

However besides all the valid criticism I feel the discussion Andrew started way too much had a negative tone towards the UI.

Is the UI really that bad or is the way tools are presented (Brecht mentions) the real problem incl. workflow issues?

But which app has honestly a perfect workflow? Just yesterday I was talking to a former Blender user who uses Modo now and very often missed parts from Blender and feels Modo is less flexible here and there.

I agree,
not sarcastic at all, (not this time LOL)
And, I agree with all your last posted thoughts.
By all means.

Two paths to follow
Andrew’s or the “traditional” blender way
Both are logical
But if we try to find something between these two roads…
Something mediocre
This will be a real disaster.
This always happens in the human mind.
There isn’t any logical mediocre way.

@Cekuhnen and Michalis, +1 for being voices of reason. But I wonder if BrilliantApe cares to place odds on the likelihood of such voices being heard over the sexy roar of novelties.

I had a highly fleshed out response building upon what you have said and then Firefox was like “hey I feel like crashing right now” and everything was lost, which is probably a good thing since it probably needed some re-articulation and clairity. Still frustrating though. That said, here’s a hopefully better version of what I had typed before. lol

Regarding Maya, modo, lightwave…ect

With Modo especially, they opted to break up and categorize the UI based on use. They understood the user goes in with a purpose and a goal, and designed the UI around that. A modeling tab for a modeling layout, a painting tab for a painting specific UI, a retopology tab for retopo work…ect Some may say that Modo compromised on versatility in UI, which is only half true. Modo still allows users to pop out new windows in the same way Blender does and it allows for hotkeys to call upon those windows as well, but it hides this functionality for the most part because its rarely needed. To be honest, I kind of like this approach. Its far more rational and streamlined in my opinion.

With Maya, they opted, as you mentioned below, to have a hotbox which the user can access and customize for the purpose of calling on just about every major operation and function with the click of one button and a few mouse swipes. They mixed with this the quick toggle between a full screen viewport, and a quad view. The compromise is a consistent UI that pretty much never changes but is easy navigate and highly unified. I found this to make learning and navigating within Maya the easiest of all the major 3d apps so far. Versatility of UI layout was not important, and I agree to some extent. It tells the artist to focus on the task at hand in the same consistent space. Its very direct.

And with Lightwave, the worst approach In my opinion and sadly one I believe has some similarity with Blender’s current approach. I’ll add that Modo was created by former lightwave developers, so what they chose to change in design is significant in the fact that it suggest what Lightwave is doing is not really ideal. Lightwave, for those who dont know, is split into two separate applications. The first is the modeler application and the other is the layout application. The idea is that you do all your modeling in one app, then switch to the other for everything else. This goes a bit too far when it comes to dividing interfaces up.

How this relates to Blender, and one of Blender’s problems, in my opinion, is that Blender, like lightwave (in a similar sense) is made up of several mini applications or in this case windows. Each window is like an island that exists on its own, with its own set of hotkeys and layout. Each window has its own menu panel in the same vein as the (file edit render, panel), its own side panels and its own mouse control scheme, which as you noticed is entirely inconsistent with the rest of the Blender UI. Essentially what the user then has is a bunch of mini apps crammed into a small space with no unified UI or universal controls, just communication between the mini apps. This takes that lighwave mentality a bit, turns it on its head, splits it up and makes a UI thats more or less convoluted.

The compromise of course is that you can make your own layout in any way you want with any combo of windows open at any one time. Is this really beneficial? I dont think it is. I would argue that it becomes more of a UI game rather than an interface designed to increase the usability of the application in line with the goal of the user. Modo, created by former Lightwave devs came up with the best solution in my opinion. The ability to pop out and lay out custom windows, yet hidden or not presented as the main workflow due to an already default clearly organized UI broken up into different parts of the pipeline. Toss in Maya’s direct approach and its ability to call upon a highly organized menu system via hotbox/radial menu and you have gold.

I find Blenders ability switch and add windows less of a perk and more of a sentimental or romanticized idea of customization rather than the promotion of usability and goal driven interactivity. It sounds nice, the ability to just mix and match any combo of windows, buts not really as good as it sounds. The compromise in other words doesnt seem worth it. Of course this is just my opinion after using a large number of apps. I believe you noticed two of the side effects which you mention below, (inconsistency and duplicity of UI elements).

The biggest problem in my view are the following two:

  1. inconsistent workflow and options. Andrew pointed out a nice fact about having the paint brush tools on the left in the tool bar but when you want to edit the texture for a brush you have to go to the properties buttons which are often in the right part of the screen.
  1. duplications of interface elements including incomplete tool presentation which makes it hard for new users to know where what tool is and what functions Blender offers. For example the difference between what the tool bar shows in mesh edit mode what the 3d view port menu shows and what the special menu shows

+1

There seem to be so many tools why not to be honest ditch the toolbar for showing tools and rather do something similar like Maya with a radial menu. That would replace the specials menu as well as the toolbar.
This way then the toolbar could be mainly used for tool options etc.

I agree completely, though some form of easily hidden toolbar might not be so bad. Perhaps one in line with a thin toolshelf on top rather than on the sides.

That said, a fairly new streamlined modeling application known as Nvil (formerly, Voidworld) has done a good job (though a tad rough around the edges) at showcasing such an approach. For those interested, you can download the app here: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=116573&page=7 (its free to try out, export is limited to 1000 polys. If purchased that limitation goes away)

New image source: http://www.pasteall.org/pic/65139 (direct link from last host was replaced by non relevant image)

Putting Cycles above the UI is less ideal though. Look at it this way, Blender only has one interface, but a handful of rendering engines which to chose from. Rendering in Blender affects only the industry that makes use of it, but its hardly the entire 3d field. Thus is like catering to film makers but ignoring game artist. Since the UI affects everyone, both new and old and in every field, naturally I feel its far more important. Also the number one complaint thrown at Blender from all over the larger CG industry is the UI. I dont think that is coincidence.

As for whether Blenders UI is really that bad or just disorganized. Honestly I think its a bit of both, as described above. There are a few philosophies that make the UI bad in that area, and no amount of organizing can change that. Though on the other hand, organizing it will certainly increase the usability, even if some parts of philosophy are not idea.

Keymaps and hotkeys are on the table as well, which I believe are part of the UI problem, though I suppose that can be classified as an organization issue.