Why do we seem to fear improving blender?

Sorry if this is in the wrong place…

Just something Ive been thinking about during the recent UI discussions. Many things have been proposed and talked about, most of which seem to be logical, and would most certainly improve blender as a 3D package.

But then I see people “Fanboying” over Blender, and talking about how wonderful it is, and that nothing needs changing…its better than X software, and better than Y software…

Surely the Blender community isn’t so naive?

Ive been using Blender for 2 or 3 years now, and I love it. Its given me small amounts of work, and taken up endless hours of my life.

But I can also see that there is so much more potential for Blender, and as someone who loves the software, would love to see it get better, and see a wider amount of people using it.

Are people scared of a sell out…A commercialisation of Blender? If not that, then what? Why do people seem to be so scared and guarded against change, when change would only improve things?

Even when cycles came out, I followed it relatively closely, and there was a selection of people against it. BI is brilliant, there is nothing wrong with it etc…Now Cycles seems to be the standard renderer for so many…I probably haven’t used BI for about a year and a half.

Interested to hear others input…why do people seem to be against making Blender better?

I don’t think people are against making Blender better. I do think some people want to protect their investment in time learning the tools and interface so don’t want Blender to change in such a way as to require them to start over. And some proposed changes are, quite frankly, cosmetic or aimed at worsening the expert users’ experience of Blender in exchange for making it more accessible to a novice.

Over and over, in the support forums, I see new Blender users start threads complaining that they can’t do X in Blender when they could do it in Y 3D package, only to have a more experienced Blenderhead point out where the Blender tool is located that does exactly that function, and it’s usually accessible from a menu, a header button, a hot key and a panel.

Of course, we are an open forum, so we have our share of Devil’s Advocates and trolls. But, for the most part, I think a lot of the resistance to changes (other than sheer cussedheadedness) is from experienced users not wanting their speed compromised by changes to the interface.

They are afraid of change.

Which is kind of funny to be honest, because whatever version they are happy with now wont go away, it still always be there. I think it has to do with ego as well, that mixed with the demand that they not have to relearn anything new to use newer versions of Blender.

One of the pro’s of open source is that it can change without having previous versions lost due to obscure licensing restrictions.

I think it can be wonderful and also need improvement at the same time. In that sentence it seems that you think that Blender is not wonderful. Anyway, Are you sure most people are really saying that nothing needs changing or they have fear to Blender improvements? Perhaps my bad English, but I have not read many people affirm this. I have read users saying they prefer to developers invest their time ‘first’ to improving performance and adding other fundamental features, before improve the UI. I guess you do not consider them ‘fanboy’ only for thinking differently to you (or those who want changes in the UI first), right?

when change would only improve things?

Really, that’s the only possibility?

Oh please dear God somebody shoot me.

-LP

Change is fine when change is needed… change for the sake of changing things is not. I dont have a fear about the UI changes, i have a fear that current functionality that we use will be lost, all to make it easier for newbies to start working with blender.

The premise of this topic is nonsense. Nobody fears improvements. If anything, people fear change. Not every change is an improvement and not every change affects users equally.

Proverbs such as “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” and “never change a running system” don’t come out of nowhere.

Plus, most of the time people are just asking for change, having no means to effect it themselves. I’m sure if wanting things badly enough would work, we’d achieved world peace and antigravity long ago. Change always comes at a cost. If you’re asking for development time to be spent on your pet peeve (even if you’re the majority), you can’t expect everyone else to just go along with it. The other side will have its opinion heard.

Agreed here, I’m not opposed at all to UI upgrades, we just want to make sure that all of the advanced options and tools that we use are easily accessible in a fast way and that the changes are done in a sensible manner that builds on top of the existing 2.69 interface (because I do think it at least provides a nice base, it just needs some expansion with new concepts as well as refinement to bring it up to the next level)

The premise of this topic is nonsense. Nobody fears improvements. If anything, people fear change. Not every change is an improvement and not every change affects users equally.

Proverbs such as “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” and “never change a running system” don’t come out of nowhere.

Plus, most of the time people are just asking for change, having no means to effect it themselves. I’m sure if wanting things badly enough would work, we’d achieved world peace and antigravity long ago. Change always comes at a cost. If you’re asking for development time to be spent on your pet peeve (even if you’re the majority), you can’t expect everyone else to just go along with it. The other side will have its opinion heard.

I totally agree. No one is literally frightened of changes in a software. That would be ridiculous. Everyone just happens to have a different view on things, that’s just life.

I thought for a long time about whether to respond to this or not, and I finally decided to give you the benefit of the doubt and believe that this is not just an inflammatory post and treat it accordingly.

So here are some parts of your post that strike me as illogical and unjustified, perhaps you could explain your reasoning.

I see people “Fanboying” over Blender, and talking about how wonderful it is, and that nothing needs changing…its better than X software, and better than Y software…

I have been following these discussions for a while now, and long before Andrew Price’s recent opinions about the UI. The attitude you refer to is all but nonexistent. No one argues that Blender is better than Maya or ZBrush for example. No one says there is nothing wrong with Blender’s UI or tools. No one says that development should be frozen.
When you begin a thread with this sort of false imputation, you are setting up a ‘straw man argument’. Who wouldn’t agree with you if the group you are referring to is obviously insane enough to make those assertions? By subtly twisting what people actually do say, you can discredit their position completely, without really addressing the issues. I am hoping that this was not intentional and that you just got swept up in an outpouring of rhetoric, perhaps not even your own.

Surely the Blender community isn’t so naïve?

This is another rhetorical device to say that anyone who doesn’t agree with you is naïve, but if they come across to your side they can still avoid this horrible fate.

Why do people seem to be so scared and guarded against change, when change would only improve things?

The implication here is that any change is bound to be better, no matter in what direction it goes. The logical inference therefore is that Blender is absolutely the worst possible piece of software. That really is what you are saying when you make an unqualified statement like that. Of course making a reasonable statement sounds pretty wishy-washy.

Now Cycles seems to be the standard renderer for so many… I probably haven’t used BI for about a year and a half.

So was that a change or not? Cycles was carefully phased in, with no BI functionality being removed at all. Are you saying that was the wrong way to do it, or that Blender is not changing and that cycles was not really a change? You are giving an example of a major change in usability and versatility in a post where your main argument is that people don’t want such things in Blender.

Interested to hear others input…why do people seem to be against making Blender better?

Are you asking whether other people agree with you? The statement as it stands says, “If you agree with me that people seem to be against making Blender better, only then am I interested in your input.”

I don’t want to seem like I am attacking you personally here. It’s just that this seems like another post that unfairly accuses the Blender community and its developers and promoters of something patently false. And like all those other posts a few people will chime in and no one will point out the inconsistencies in their logic. Meanwhile the good work being done - by Paleajed for example- in improving Blender a little bit at a time is completely overshadowed with a spurious discussion.

Here’s an idea: if you want to see a change, organize an effort to start a branch of Blender that shows how effective your change will be. UI changes are not hugely difficult coding challenges, if you are not adding new functionality. And it doesn’t have to be completely stable, just enough for people to try out and decide for themselves.
Try to get people’s support by offering them something, not by accusing them of being scared, or naïve in an effort to browbeat them into submission.

Edit: Broke for dinner, came back, finished the post, and saw a huge response had happened in the meantime! Good show, all.

First of all,UI improvements doesn’t mean automatically that Blender will be better,but only different(and this can be good for some people but not good for others).
Second,UI discussion simply detract the attention from much more important issues,like performance issues on viewport,unfinished features all over the place and so on.
If the community were so alert to point out weak points as is about UI issues Blender would be certainly a better program,much more solid.

If the community were so alert to point out weak points as is about UI issues Blender would be certainly a better program,much more solid.

If there’s one thing Blender isn’t in shortage of, it is people that are pointing out its flaws. The UI is just represented disproportionately, because even if you only used Blender for 30 seconds, you can already complain about RMB being used for select.
The developers aren’t blind or completely incompetent. They can see the flaws, at least all of the obvious ones. If you see a flaw in Blender, there is most likely a good reason for it. Maybe all the alternatives (given the constraints) are worse. Maybe nobody has come up with a good solution (and the spare time to implement it). Maybe simply nobody is able (or willing) to bother with it - and who is there to force them?

We can agree completely about this.

I haven’t said developers are incompetent.
Even if there could be reasons for issues this doesn’t mean that they have to be in Blender forever.
At some point the development can fix some of them,and,from my point of view,it can happen easier and sooner if the issues are really problematic from the users point of view.
How do you fix bugs for example?
Someone has first to point out,and if the bug is really dangerous/ugly you could agree with me that the Blender foundation is more interested in fixing it if possible.
The same for weak points(or at least I hope so)

Aren’t you guys bored with these threads yet? -_-’

While they used to pop up from time to time, now the general forums are nothing but an endless stream of complaining. It makes the community look worthless and icky.

Well, there’s the upcoming conference. We’ll most likely see the UI debate be one of the key topics there - and, if nothing else, we’ll also see precisely how the active parts of the community (and not newcomers like me - I know I don’t count for squat, and that’s fine -, and not forum 'taters who speak much and do little - no accusations of anyone in this thread!, just that every community has some of those) view this whole kerfluffle. And, most likely, the conference will be a clear indicator of whether we may expect any real ui changes or not.

To briefly touch on the subject - UI changes are always a sensitive topic, not just for Blender, but for any software with long-time users. And, sure, usually it means that the years they have learned the UI and adapted to it, and streamlined their workflow, would be mitigated and they’d have to change their efficient ways. (Blender is a little bit different in that we could just have two UI branches, frex) That’s natural - after all, why should they suffer so some newbs get an easier time? The UI is fine for the people who’re fully used to it. That’s also where the ‘extremely minor efficiency tweaks’ vs ‘radical rearrangement’ collision comes in play.
Anyway. Users protest UI changes constantly. Adobe’s UI redesigns have had a lot of opposition (as well as support, as these things always go); in the end the designers were proven right. Microsoft’s UI changes have had a lot of opposition, with Word going tabbed-design a while back. Those designers were… probably?.. proven right. The Windows OS designers pushed drastic UI changes in Windows8. So far, looks like they’re being proven wrong about their ideas.

Because Blender interface fits my needs. Is it really so hard to believe that someone likes it just like it is?

I think some people have confused what I meant, or perhaps I wrote it poorly…

Im certainly not attacking blender, or the blender community. I love blender, I always will.

Clearly I don’t mean fear as in being held up at gunpoint by someone…Jeez. I mean in a way someone else suggested, the fear of change itself, and potentially having to re-learn certain aspects of blender. And if you search through posts, you will definitely see people being guarded against it. Ive been reading posts on here, facebook, twitter etc…and some of them are simply “Blender is perfect, nothing needs changing, go away…AAAAAHHH”

In regards to me not thinking Blender is wonderful and perfect, Well…no? Its wonderful, but of course its not perfect. Nothing in life is truly perfect. Everything has flaws, and of course can be improved.

I really don’t see how behaviour I have mentioned in my first post has not been noticed? I see it all the time…Im not making shit up, shaking the coke can for someone else to open.

I was just pointing out certain behaviour which I have noticed, and asking why it exists basically…

Like I said, maybe I worded things poorly.

I got to blender from other apps
I’ve had that why cant blender do this or that moment
then I find blender can !! (sometimes better)
then pop back to the old app and grrrrrrrrrrrr wheres my **** woteva

only change things for the better never change things that work well

and as for posts I see (way too many) why cant blender do this like that proggy does
GO BUY that proggy!! live off beans on toast forever
I like steak and LOVE Blender !!!