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  1. #61
    Member Philippe M.'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by aermartin View Post
    ... and who were afraid of letting some CS gaming kids in on this forum :P
    Ooooohohoho, BURN! LOL, j\k guys.

    Back to the original(ish) point of content creation for the Source engine, I looked into what's needed for Blender's side, and there's already an add-on to import/export Source's SMD files - I was able to import the Drow Ranger model from DotA2 without too many problems (the rigging is a little strange, but that might be the import options - 'verse knows I'm no rigging or i/o expert)

    And TBH, the 2.7x and beyond roadmap sounds quite amazing to me
    Last edited by Philippe M.; 16-Aug-13 at 09:49.
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  2. #62
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    Dude, this is no place for that, also: Do you know there is something called fraps?

    On Topic:
    I think valve can really help blender, if its put as a modding tool, it can get better game ready tools, and gain respect from the gaming industry



  3. #63
    Member BluePrintRandom's Avatar
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    This is a place, where people talk about things,

    Like - distribution platforms - STEAM

    - > The BGE as a lame horse that needs shot < - (which is hilarious)

    A BGE game going AAA/ *****

    its not my game, its ours.....

    I am responding that yes, people are developing a full game with the BGE.
    using every feature that the devs are adding.

    More people = less time.

    If people could make games in blender, use the bge, and distribute them via steam easier that would be great.

    Not just mods.

    Greenlight is cool for this,
    Last edited by BluePrintRandom; 15-Aug-13 at 11:54.
    I have overcome all obstacles which seemed in the beginning unsurmountable and found elegant solutions of all the problems which confronted me, yet, even at this very day, the majority of experts are still blind to the possibilities which are within easy attainment.



  4. #64
    Member SaintHaven's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BluePrintRandom View Post
    This is a place, where people talk about things,

    Like - distribution platforms - STEAM

    - > The BGE as a lame horse that needs shot < - (which is hilarious)

    A BGE game going AAA/ *****

    its not my game, its ours.....

    I am responding that yes, people are developing a full game with the BGE.
    using every feature that the devs are adding.

    More people = less time.

    If people could make games in blender, use the bge, and distribute them via steam easier that would be great.

    Not just mods.

    Greenlight is cool for this,
    No I really dont think this is the right place for this stuff either, nor does it show anything thats worth showing up. What might be amazing to some in the BGE is peanuts for most other game engines. I saw someone tried to push those vids on the Valve employee via the message boards as well, and it just makes the community look amateur. This isnt the place for the game engine. What is important is the asset creation side of things.

    As for BGE on steam, it wont happen. It just wont. Additionally, it seems like a lot of the posters on the BGE subforum willfully ignore the restrictions imposed by GPL 2.0 and how it relates to the BGE. In a way yes, the BGE need to be put down and have two things happen, one get a different type of functionality within Blender (as proposed by Ton) and/or get forked into a seperate and standalone game engine. IF that were the case I would recommend it start over from scratch under a different license, one that actually rewards developers in some fashion.
    Also advocating the use of: Krita - Marmoset Toolbag - Modo - Substance Designer/Painter
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  5. #65
    @Sainthaven, pssst, that's the same guy who pushed that on the mailing list So only one person is singlehandedly making the Blender community look amateur.



  6. #66
    Member BluePrintRandom's Avatar
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    I am a amature,

    I am also writing a game that will direct revenue to the BGE.

    I have learned 3d animation, python, and logic....

    By writing it,
    I am crying out for help from the community, to create a self sustaining ad revenue system to develop the BGE full time,

    I have 6+ people contributing,
    I want it to get big,

    so I dream big
    I have overcome all obstacles which seemed in the beginning unsurmountable and found elegant solutions of all the problems which confronted me, yet, even at this very day, the majority of experts are still blind to the possibilities which are within easy attainment.



  7. #67
    Originally Posted by Ace Dragon View Post
    zero-pipeline development.
    Not true. You still need to write BGE code to convert Blender data to BGE game data.

    Originally Posted by Ace Dragon View Post
    Without the BGE, Blender becomes just another content creation package that forces use of exporters and other content pipeline tools (which I'm guessing is something that some want here, heck I've heard of a few people at CGTalk who advocate the creation of more pipeline with specialization of apps. and a common format).
    Correct. Having to use two editors, one for DCC creation and one for game creation is not efficient (i.e. Blender to Unity). You can create you own pipeline where you can make the entire game in one editor (Blender) and the editor would launch the game engine. I have that going right now with my pipleine (i.e. Blender to Urho3D).

    Originally Posted by Ace Dragon View Post
    Personally, I would prefer the Blender-BGE route rather than the edit > export > edit in the game engine > test > go back to step 1 deal that you have to do with other 3D apps. (I know that Unity was able to read .blend file contents at one point, but getting the changes in Unity required saving the file).
    With my current pipeline, all I have to do is press "Export" and then "Play" and everything gets exported and the game engine launches from Blender. I also have very good control on what I would like to export at any given time (for example only models, or only materials, or only textures).

    So this is not unique to BGE. You can have any engine you want and you can just launch it from Blender (ex. Urho3D, GameKit, Torque3D, etc). Blender gives you that flexibility because of its deep Python integration.

    Screenshot:
    Name:  Urho3D_Export_Example.png
Views: 959
Size:  28.3 KB

    Textures by the way get automatically compressed and the compression tool puts it in the correct runtime game folder.
    Last edited by Sinan; 15-Aug-13 at 14:10.



  8. #68
    Someone pointed me to this regarding user generated content on those steam thing :
    http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

    You grant Valve and its affiliates the non-exclusive, irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and publicly perform, your User Generated Content, and derivative works of your User Generated Content, in connection with the operation and promotion of the Steam site. If you use Valve cloud storage, you grant us a license to store your information as part of that service. We may place limits on the amount of storage you may use.
    While Blender grants you complete copyright (and so freedom to use and license your own work the way you want http://www.blender.org/education-hel...artists/#c6569 ) on your work generated with Blender, looks like you'll need to keep that steam user agreement in mind if you decide to contribute your work to those hosted games with their steam workshop system.



  9. #69
    Member Ace Dragon's Avatar
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    Can you imagine trying to do real-time hair/fur/grass in BGE? What about real-time cloth or ambient occlusion? and those aren't even next-gen technologies
    When it comes to the graphical parts, this is part of the reason why Kupoman started the BGE-harmony project (which is a complete overhaul of the rendering backend), it's currently in phase 2 and is taking a while to complete due to the large scope of the project and the fact that it is just one person coding it. When it is done the BGE should be using some modern rendering technologies like inferred lighting that should increase the graphical quality of games, do note though that Phase 3 is currently in the planning stages and the sheer scope means that patience is needed.

    Also, I think BPR is starting to go a bit far when it comes to pushing his project on his thread.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    With my current pipeline, all I have to do is press "Export" and then "Play"
    If you can combine those into one step, then using an external game engine will become as easy and fast as using the BGE itself and make it much more viable for some to move to other engines (though I would still appreciate the option of using the BGE as some of the project's I've worked on have way too much logic involved to be easily portable to other engines and would best be completed in the BGE).

    As for projects that are never completed, I will admit that I have a number of projects that I've never completed as well, but it's not so much because of BGE limitations as it is to all my creative time being taken up by use of the Cycles renderer. (my art creation tends to have higher priority than game creation).

    A final note, the reason I often speak up in favor of the BGE is that I tend to follow the latest development more closely than many other members so I know there's some hard work being done by the BGE developers, in part it makes me feel like they're being treated as pariahs and with high levels of disrespect in the Blender community because of the perception they are working on a dead-end.

    ----------------------------------------
    EDIT: Just found something of interest that is somewhat related to this thread.

    The BGE user known as C-106 Delta (creator of the ultra-secure BPPlayer), has indicated that he is starting to do some research into a possible integration with Steam (seen on this page)
    http://www.blenderartists.org/forum/...cOSX%29/page32

    So theoretically, it might eventually become possible to use his custom player to get BGE games onto steam, he also mentioned some interest in integration with the Oculus Rift platform as well. On top of that, a new version is slated to come out tomorrow.

    Basically, all that the BPPlayer does is wrap the .blend in a non-GPL shell that allows for technical distribution of the source while preventing others from editing it, the way he set it up means that editing the actual game inside should be no less difficult than hacking a commercial AAA game.
    Last edited by Ace Dragon; 15-Aug-13 at 15:01.
    Sweet Dragon dreams, lovely Dragon kisses, gorgeous Dragon hugs. How sweet would life be to romp with Dragons, teasing you with their fire and you being in their games, perhaps they can even turn you into one as well.
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  10. #70
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    @Ace Dragon & BluePrintRandom:
    Neither the BGE nor (the very basic) Project Wrectified are really issues related to Valve's collaboration. Valve is looking at Blender as a content creator and getting involved with the Blender Foundation on that basis. They've expressed no interest at all in some spammed game project or Blender's game engine.

    You're both derailing the thread to discuss your pet peeve and, in my opinion, it's as appropriate to this thread as it would be for me to repeatedly complain about the bloody "left-click = 3D Tool" default Blender has here. Can't you leave the thread about Valve's cooperation/collaboration with the Blender Foundation to remain about Valve & the Blender Foundation?

    You've both already got threads dedicated to your subject matter, it's a bit tiresome to have it crop up in a Good News thread about the Blender Foundation & Blender working with & getting funds from a large, recognized, and well-respected company.



  11. #71
    Member Ace Dragon's Avatar
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    I'm not really siding with BluePrintRandom here, I know you're tired of this, but I am also tired of seeing people (like Indie_Logic) using threads like this to state Ton's opinion on the future of the BGE as final and something that won't change (in which changing the plan is something he is open to doing), that on top of assuming that there's no dev. work on it while in reality there is (and has actually picked up a notch since Ton's announcement).

    I know the BGE needs a lot of work to get up to a true AAA level, but the engine in and of itself is not broken or bug-ridden and the fact that it's not the most advanced is also not stopping people like Moguri from improving it and thus shouldn't be dismissed for their efforts. I think there's still room for the BGE along with tools to help with the export of data to other game engines (why else would we have an 'engine list' menu on the top bar).

    Anyway, I'm about done with this tangent, BPR meanwhile seems to be really testing the line here and should rescind his use of ad-homs in this thread because their only purpose is to eventually get threads locked, and we don't want to see that.
    Last edited by Ace Dragon; 16-Aug-13 at 00:20.
    Sweet Dragon dreams, lovely Dragon kisses, gorgeous Dragon hugs. How sweet would life be to romp with Dragons, teasing you with their fire and you being in their games, perhaps they can even turn you into one as well.
    Need Cycles materials / node setups: Get them here



  12. #72
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    We're going to have to agree to disagree Ace Dragon, cos I really don't want to keep thread derailed. Unless you've got a link to Ton changing his mind, I'm going to remain of the opinion that folks pointing to the man's words are as correct as one can get about his intentions. I'd have no problems continuing this in an actual thread about the subject, but not here.

    ----

    Back on the subject of Valve, does anyone here know how much donations the DOTA creations are garnering on average? At ~$10 a pop for (good) sets and ~$1 for items, ~$2.50 for equipment, etc - there isn't a huge amount of money per sale, but the game is very popular, so I wonder how much it adds up to overall.



  13. #73
    BA Crew Fweeb's Avatar
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    Please remain on topic (and play nice, folks).

    @BluePrintRandom, you've been warned before about spamming the forums with your project. Please constrain your posts on that project to the threads that are already dedicated to it. Do not respond to my post in this thread (though you are welcome to send me a PM).



  14. #74
    Member tyrant monkey's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BTolputt View Post
    Back on the subject of Valve, does anyone here know how much donations the DOTA creations are garnering on average? At ~$10 a pop for (good) sets and ~$1 for items, ~$2.50 for equipment, etc - there isn't a huge amount of money per sale, but the game is very popular, so I wonder how much it adds up to overall.
    I can't answer your question but are you not limiting things just looking at DOTA 2, there are a shit load of games in steam workshop I was looking at it months back because I wanted to make some stuff for Torch Light 2. I wanted a dragon for a pet and some other weapons etc.

    I think revenue splitting happens on plenty of games on the workshop? I never went too far with this so I don't know for sure.
    I have 500 bad drawings in me before the good ones. And I have 365 to go, here they are.



  15. #75
    Originally Posted by Sanctuary View Post
    Someone pointed me to this regarding user generated content on those steam thing :
    http://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/
    I don't see the problem with granting them the use of assets I create for promotional purposes or to store the asset in their infrastructure or distribute them for me. After all, the content is for a game they developed and they pay me for my creativity.

    It sounds more like a protection for Valve from idiotic lawsuits. You know someone who felt slighted would try and sue Valve for stealing/using user created content. Unfortunately these kinds of protections are necessary in today's digital marketplace.

    The EULA also include this for your protection and the protection of 3rd party users of your content:

    You may, in your sole discretion, choose to remove a Workshop Contribution from the applicable Workshop pages. If you do so, Valve will no longer have the right to use, distribute, transmit, communicate, publicly display or publicly perform the Workshop Contribution, except that (a) Valve may continue to exercise these rights for any Workshop Contribution that is accepted for distribution in-game or distributed in a manner that allows it to be used in-game, and (b) your removal will not affect the rights of any Subscriber who has already obtained access to a copy of the Workshop Contribution.
    Valve is a business, and businesses generally exist to make money which prompts them to protect their right to make money in these ways. But as far as businesses go, Valve has a lot more scruples than most others, and I think this can only benefit the Blender Foundation and the Blender community.
    Last edited by monsterdog; 16-Aug-13 at 11:48.



  16. #76
    @motorstep, i agree that if you're getting money from Valve by working on their games, there should be no problem with you and that agreement.

    But there are more than Valve games that benefit from their "steam workshop" apparently and so the theoretical possibility that Valve is being able to get a part of the IP of what a modder for a non-Valve game would have created from scratch can lead into some problems as while Valve is indeed a business, not every modders are going to make money from any valve collaboration but still will have to get under the "user agreement".

    by example here's a 50+ pages long thread with people modding the game "ArmA3" and feeling very concerned by those Valve "user agreement" texts :
    http://forums.bistudio.com/showthrea...Steam-WORKSHOP

    (but it's nothing to do with Blender + Valve i must say that is absolutely not a problem for any blender users, as long as you agree with the user agreement and want to put your blender work on their system)
    Last edited by Sanctuary; 16-Aug-13 at 12:35.



  17. #77
    These EULA clauses are standard clauses, it doesn't mean they get to "own" your work, it just grants them all the rights required to run their service. Practically any service that stores your data has some form of these wide-reaching permissions required.

    How could they possibly display your model in the shops without generating e.g. a thumbnail? (derivative work) How could they move a file on their own servers without the explicit right to copy it? What if you decided you want to stop selling your item on Steam? All the users who have purchased the item (and get the data through Steam) might not be able to access it anymore (thus, irrevocability).



  18. #78
    Member BluePrintRandom's Avatar
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    REDACTED - posting in other thread..
    I have overcome all obstacles which seemed in the beginning unsurmountable and found elegant solutions of all the problems which confronted me, yet, even at this very day, the majority of experts are still blind to the possibilities which are within easy attainment.



  19. #79
    Not sure if this is relevant or already answered, but anyway, how much money can you make with Blender and Steam?
    The reason I like CG is because Blender exists XD...
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  20. #80
    Member SaintHaven's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by antoni4040 View Post
    Not sure if this is relevant or already answered, but anyway, how much money can you make with Blender and Steam?
    The user can generate anywhere from a few thousand dollars to over $500,000. Last year (2013), Valve paid out just over $10 million dollars to about 600 (rounded down) artist with their work on the steam workshop. The average artist at least got $15,000.

    So its possible to use Blender for steam workshop assets, but its not very convenient at this point and theres still some issues with FBX which games like Dota 2 require.

    Given this information though, a lot...and I mean a lot.. of money can be made with it. Thus the question is whether or not the development side of Blender can realize this is a major resource of revenue for them via the side effect of artist giving a small % of their earnings to Blender development, and thus build tool around making the process as easy and stream lined as possible.

    Modo steam edition was the first to make it extremely easy, other artist are moving to Maya LT as well, since both work extremely well with the workshop pipeline.
    Also advocating the use of: Krita - Marmoset Toolbag - Modo - Substance Designer/Painter
    Recommend reading: Vertex Magazine (free)



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