View Full Version : So sad!
Yea....not again.....
I dont wanna see blender being closed down
Wow. Should I feel sad that a company no longer exists? I do. How depressing.
Anonymous
14-Mar-02, 08:39
This sucks!! I start using blender about 6 months ago and I was preparing to finally get my 2.0 guide and now this! This is really to bad. I sure hope that they come back in some form!
Is the #BlenderChat on irc still gonna go on?
BgDM
Anonymous
14-Mar-02, 08:43
This is so depressing, pretty much my entire day revolved around Blender...
Things were picking up speed on Dynamica (goodbye..) again as well...
:(
Eeshlo
Eeshlo, make it standalone?
Anonymous
14-Mar-02, 09:12
pow pow pow , oww ow ouw.
thats all fishies. NaN could not listen to the artists askking for a creator licence, so POW OWW! They are gone. Who's going to want to use a weak game tool for PS2.
I realy did want to like blender. But they just would not listen to anyone.
slikdigit
14-Mar-02, 09:54
this really sucks. Is there any way they can continue blender? sell it? open source it? or can you do neither with bankuptcy laws?
2.25 was such a big improvement too.
dunno what I'll do for a 3d soft right now. I don't like to pirate, have philosophical issues with the big guys (they charge too much!) and don't really like the other cheap/free offerings as much.
Any advice?
PS just to make things worse I'm on Linux. So even less choices.
The only way I can support Blender at this point is to post version 2.23 in the Downloads section of my website. I encourage others with web sites to do the same!
This really puts a big, fat kink in the F1 Challenge. Damn!
Whow what a shock. I attend to stick with Blender and see what happens, hope it will continue in some way
dreamsgate
14-Mar-02, 10:38
I feel like I just lost my best friend. I started every day by going to the blender boards to see what everyone was up to. When I got home from work I did the same thing. THis is a real bummer.
rndrdbrian
14-Mar-02, 10:44
Very sad news.
I'll still use blender for the moment though.
-
brian
Anonymous
14-Mar-02, 10:56
Hey... it might not be *completely* dead... hey everyone (eeshlo :P) finish your scripts... please... think of it this way: you could be the only Blender development until NaN gets itself sorted out...
*sigh* I hate it when this happens... *snifsnif*
~*~
rivenwanderer
Sniff......
all the best to the NaN staff, I hope they will find they're way.
but people PLEASE!
KEEP THE COMMUNITY ALIVE!
as we speak there are plans being made to host new sites.
Roel
Anonymous
14-Mar-02, 11:53
On 2002-03-14 05:11, macke wrote:
http://www.blender.nl/
"You" are sad Macke.
SatoriGFX.
dreamsgate
14-Mar-02, 12:02
pffft, you are sad.
We are bummed, if you don't want to be supportive go away.
okay guys, we need to bnand together. i think between all of us we can help NaN. They have done so much for us, so lets help them. I love belnder, and refuse ot see it dissapear. Anyone with me?
[email protected]
icq
36315687
I need help, and so does NaN
get abck to me
Nayman
Anonymous
14-Mar-02, 12:28
On 2002-03-14 09:02, dreamsgate wrote:
pffft, you are sad.
We are bummed, if you don't want to be supportive go away.
Sorry, this was not meant to say that the situation with NaN isn't sad. It is. I like Blender overall (a few reservations) and thought it had even more potential.
My comment was directed at Macke for another reason. Since he is being a child and a hypocrite and has "banned" me from #blenderchat, this was the only way I had to let him know what I thought of him.
I hope the guys from NaN find a way to survive and keep Blender alive. Blender gave (and still gives) many people the ability to explore 3d in a way they may not otherwise have had the opportunity to.
I may not agree with recent NaN moves but I can't say they didn't try.
SatoriGFX.
Anonymous
14-Mar-02, 12:35
jeez, it's a dirty rotten shame. i loved blender, and it had one of the coolest communities ever. blender had alot of potential, and i'm sad i'll never be able to buy my own blender guide and stuff from the shop. i'll keep using blender two-twenty-three for a long while yet. i hope the blenderleague continues there work. sadly, i don't know where the community is going to move to. most likely here. hopefully.
i wonder what will become of on the haunt at curtis' f1 challenge! maybe i'll expand on the haunt to use other tools, but it just wouldn't be the same. oh well, we'll wait and see.
-biofreak (or redbiofreak, or bluebiofreak, or orangebiofreak, or janetjackson) (
[email protected])
:(
I'll talk with Eeshlo about the future of Dynamica. then I'll post something here again.
Martin
Hi people:
Don't waste energy arguing. Blender is an important part of my life. It has given me a lot of pleasure and will continue doing so.
Maybe we, the community, will transform in something like the Quake or Doom community did. A bunch of fans, who use the software no matter what.
Hopefully, Blender code would be released and people would continue its development in the future.
Or maybe Microsoft will buy it and we would never be able to use any free version....
Who knows.
For the time being, gathering in these forums and IRC is the best we can do. Stop fighting. Continue your projects. Be happy.
Cheers.
malefico.
And so we are set adrift. Alot of us will probably continue to use blender, but many will search for other apps. Or, like me, they might put 3d on the shelf for awhile (if I can:).
Maybe NaN will come back or blender might be ressurected in some other way.
I'll check in here every once in awhile.
cyall
:/ pofo
Satori: There was a reason for you being banned. Reason was that you were being quite a bitch against everyone. You see, not many disapprooved of my action.
So, now please do reply with a long post about how I am such a moron, gay, fundamentalist or whatever you may, I do not care. Have a nice day.
Anonymous
14-Mar-02, 14:26
On 2002-03-14 11:01, macke wrote:
Satori: There was a reason for you being banned. Reason was that you were being quite a bitch against everyone. You see, not many disapprooved of my action.
So, now please do reply with a long post about how I am such a moron, gay, fundamentalist or whatever you may, I do not care. Have a nice day.
You mean the little boys had their little feelings hurt by my "opinions"? I can see how people like that would be happy that you, their great leader, would get rid of me, the big meanie. :)
Bunch of children. You're all for opinions as long as they are your own. You're all for taking the occasional shot at someone as long as you aren't on the receiving end. And you all have tunnel vision. You saw my negative comments and ignored the positive ones.
Quite sad actually.
SatoriGFX.
~yawn~ arguing already. just like the real blender community.
Anonymous
14-Mar-02, 15:55
fuck............fuck........... this hurts..... im sorry NAN, fight and come back, maybe a name change? maybe spell yer name backwards..... =)
missing u,
blengine
Anonymous
14-Mar-02, 16:03
Why Are so many people shocked by this? They didn't stop and look at who, what and where their real market was. They kept creating new concepts for Blender when Blenders heart and soul was 3D modeling and animation. I told you people that went out and bought a Pub licence in the hopes that NaN would make the tools you really wanted. I told you were fools and I was right! Ton banned me from posting on Blender.nl because he didn't want to hear the truth. Now you have a dead app for your $300. Suckers. NaN this is what you get for being so short sighted.
return of the Lurker
On 2002-03-14 13:03, Anonymous wrote:
Why Are so many people shocked by this? They didn't stop and look at who, what and where their real market was. They kept creating new concepts for Blender when Blenders heart and soul was 3D modeling and animation. I told you people that went out and bought a Pub licence in the hopes that NaN would make the tools you really wanted. I told you were fools and I was right! Ton banned me from posting on Blender.nl because he didn't want to hear the truth. Now you have a dead app for your $300. Suckers. NaN this is what you get for being so short sighted.
return of the Lurker
well, we all shoulda known something was wrong when ton said they spend $2 million a year and only make $40K annually. then to make it worse they pursued a market that was already small, and already overcrowded: that of 3D web stuff. wildtangent tried this and haven't been doing that great themselves. and wildtangent's stuff had way more power than gameblender.
that stuff is really hard to decide. i mean, i can't think of anything they could have done that would help them make money. they spoiled us users with frequent and free updates, and we just didn't want to buy anything.
they could have made money by licensing it for public use with big companies, but big companies weren't attracted to blender...
there's really no solution, sadly. i think blender was somewhat doomed from the beginning. they are really smart people there, so they might think of something we haven't come up with yet. let's just hope they do, and that it works.
Anonymous
14-Mar-02, 16:20
On 2002-03-14 13:14, orange wrote:
[quote]
there's really no solution, sadly. i think blender was somewhat doomed from the beginning. they are really smart people there, so they might think of something we haven't come up with yet. let's just hope they do, and that it works.
You may be right. I still think that if they would have taken all of the time, money and energy they put into the plugin and gaming features into the modelling/animation/rendering side of things that they could have had a product that people would have payed for. I could be wrong. I guess I am looking at it from "my" point of view and what it would have taken for "me" to pay for Blender.
SatoriGFX.
Anonymous
14-Mar-02, 16:43
[/quote]
You may be right. I still think that if they would have taken all of the time, money and energy they put into the plugin and gaming features into the modelling/animation/rendering side of things that they could have had a product that people would have payed for. I could be wrong. I guess I am looking at it from "my" point of view and what it would have taken for "me" to pay for Blender.
SatoriGFX.
[/quote]
They would have had a product people would have paid for. Many people told them they would not pay for Publisher but would be willing to pay for creator. The majority of poeple didn't want the features found in publisher. The market was there Ton and company just decided the community wasn't important. I believe that this adittude bite them in the ass. If they decide at some point to make a come back that had better think more about what the community will pay for and not try so hard to create a nonexistant pro market for Blender. It's just not there yet.
The Lurker
They would have had a product people would have paid for. Many people told them they would not pay for Publisher but would be willing to pay for creator. The majority of poeple didn't want the features found in publisher. The market was there Ton and company just decided the community wasn't important. I believe that this adittude bite them in the ass. If they decide at some point to make a come back that had better think more about what the community will pay for and not try so hard to create a nonexistant pro market for Blender. It's just not there yet.
The Lurker
hrmm... so you figure they just disregarded all those massive surveys they took a long while back? i think we only got to see what a few people in the community were saying... not necessarily what the majority of the community was saying. and i doubt nan was stupid enough to just ignore those surveys. so we need to wonder just what people DID put in those things... maybe they were just fickle.
but IMHO gameBlender was a good idea, just not one that could be marketted fairly well. i mean, people would have loved to make "toy" games with gameBlender. sadly, the interface scared them away... it would have been a great game for kids and stuff though.
SatoriGFX
14-Mar-02, 17:23
On 2002-03-14 13:49, orange wrote:
They would have had a product people would have paid for. Many people told them they would not pay for Publisher but would be willing to pay for creator. The majority of poeple didn't want the features found in publisher. The market was there Ton and company just decided the community wasn't important. I believe that this adittude bite them in the ass. If they decide at some point to make a come back that had better think more about what the community will pay for and not try so hard to create a nonexistant pro market for Blender. It's just not there yet.
The Lurker
hrmm... so you figure they just disregarded all those massive surveys they took a long while back? i think we only got to see what a few people in the community were saying... not necessarily what the majority of the community was saying. and i doubt nan was stupid enough to just ignore those surveys. so we need to wonder just what people DID put in those things... maybe they were just fickle.
but IMHO gameBlender was a good idea, just not one that could be marketted fairly well. i mean, people would have loved to make "toy" games with gameBlender. sadly, the interface scared them away... it would have been a great game for kids and stuff though.
SatoriGFX
14-Mar-02, 17:31
Sorry about that last post with no added comment by me. My bad.
but IMHO gameBlender was a good idea, just not one that could be marketted fairly well. i mean, people would have loved to make "toy" games with gameBlender. sadly, the interface scared them away... it would have been a great game for kids and stuff though.
I would think that any idea intended to make money for a company that can't "be marketed fairly well" isn't such a good idea after all.
I bet the number or people interested in Publisher, especially paying for it, is far smaller than you think. Why? Well, NaN has just gone the way of the Dodo because few people purchased a Publisher license. That speaks volumes.
I have no idea if choosing a different direction would have made a difference. I do know the direction they chose was wrong. All you have to do is visit their website today to know they made a bad choice.
I don't know how many licenses at what price they needed to sell. But I suspect they would have had more success cateringl to the group of users they placed second on their list of potential customers, namely, those interested in improved Creator features.
SatoriGFX.
stephen2002
14-Mar-02, 17:45
But I suspect they would have had more success cateringl to the group of users they placed second on their list of potential customers, namely, those interested in improved Creator features.
You got that right! I would have bought a licence right away if it was under $300 and they started to develope the animation features instead of the game stuff. The game stuff was just a joke in many people's opinion. Most people who want to make a real game, get to programming!
They went the wrong way, the way that was opposite their huge community. Oh well, stuff happens.
Well guys, instead of arguing, join me. Read my post and get back to me, either thru e mail or icq. We really need help. I want people to help build, design and maintain a new website possibly. With a new community journal, a new gallery, new message boards. It could be small, in fact, we may ever have to charge a small fee to join, but it is worth it... when was the last time belndeer charged you anything (except for publisher). I think we can get a "newblender" started, maybe raise some money, get NaN back on their feet i nthe smallest way possible. please, i am begging guys
Am I the only one who remembers what Ton promised on the blender website a while ago(It was on the "about blender" page on the old website)? If NaN ever went bankrupt they would opensource Blender so it would live on.
I wonder if they plan to live up to that promise or not. Something tells me they won't...
Spiral Man
15-Mar-02, 14:13
ok, everybody has been saying it, but i guess ill say it too. i am really suprised nan lasted as long as they did. i would have easily payed $200-300 (i payed for animation master, and, frankly, i think i got a really good deal) for creator if they had worked on it, instead of wasting time and money on the game engine/web plugin.
if you look at the communities (and im speaking generally) the game engine comunity seemed to be comprised more of script kiddies who wanted to be l33t hAx0rs, most of which are the types to pirate software instead of buying it (again, no offence to the people who werent like this, this is just a generality based on what i saw, i could be completely off base). i say, learn c/c++ and openGL (thats what i did).
unfortunately, blender's feature list had some holes in it at random places. decent script support, except no support for armatures. a non functioning particle system (it has to at least have collision detection, in my opinion), etc. perhaps if they had concentrated on that aspect of blender, things would habe been different, but i guess we may never know : (
anyway, opensourcing blender would be great, but frankly, i dont think its going to happen. first, they are going to need to sell the source to pay off debts. but also, i dont think they have a very good relationship with the OSS community. the community was pissed off when they hyped up the fact that they were planning on opening the source, but then just said they were going to start an opensource render daemon project (not what any of us had in mind). then they got pissed at the community (at least, some of them, from what i got from irc discussions with them about this) because the community didnt deliver a marketable product for them for free. still, if they open the source, ill be one of the first to download it and start hacking. ive always wondered what the source looked like, how clean it was, is it object oriented, etc.
sorry if i sounded like i didnt like blender or the community. i obviously do or i wouldnt be posting here, and i wouldnt use blender every day. hopefully, we can keep it alive for a couple more years, or untill something else comes along. but eventually those dynamic builds wont work against the latest glibc or windows dlls...
Nayman:
Why not help Timothy Kanters build on top of elYsiun.com's already-established website? All of the design, PHP/SQL backbone, tutorials, galleries, and forums are in place. The job of creating a Blender website would be a far easier (and simpler) task if people actually collaborated on one website with lots of resources, rather than create their own individual, disparate websites with fewer resources.
Or is your main intent to actually recreate the old Blender website? (Just in case I missed your point!)
On 2002-03-15 09:43, Ottmar wrote:
Am I the only one who remembers what Ton promised on the blender website a while ago(It was on the "about blender" page on the old website)? If NaN ever went bankrupt they would opensource Blender so it would live on.
I wonder if they plan to live up to that promise or not. Something tells me they won't...
Well, first NaN has to pay off their debts. Their livelihood and jobs are already gone, so their first priority is making sure they have a means of living. I'm sure keeping their word to a transient Internet community is secondary. Releasing the source code will make us very happy campers, but won't do a bit of good to bring food to their already-empty table.
In summary, I think you're right. :(
On 2002-03-15 12:29, Sprite wrote:
Well, first NaN has to pay off their debts. Their livelihood and jobs are already gone, so their first priority is making sure they have a means of living. I'm sure keeping their word to a transient Internet community is secondary. Releasing the source code will make us very happy campers, but won't do a bit of good to bring food to their already-empty table.
i'm hoping they will sell the blender technology to someone for a good profit. i'm sure somebody out there would like to buy it. and maybe we will be lucky and see the blender technology live on in another product in a different way.
but selling it would help pay off their bills. and i'm sure they have alot! :(
Hi all!, really good to see ya`s!!
otterman said:
Am I the only one who remembers what Ton promised on the blender website a while ago
no, otterman I also remember , it was mid 1999... Ton said, the same license as linux
The Lurker
16-Mar-02, 20:39
On 2002-03-16 00:38, H@dj wrote:
Hi all!, really good to see ya`s!!
otterman said:
Am I the only one who remembers what Ton promised on the blender website a while ago
no, otterman I also remember , it was mid 1999... Ton said, the same license as linux
I too remember this and a few other things he said over the years. Seems like the last few months he has done a lot of backtracking so I wouldn't be holding your breath for an open sourced Blender. NaN's new 2002 offical stance is that the community means nothing to them. This is why 'in my opinion' NaN failed.
The Lurker
overextrude
16-Mar-02, 23:04
The irony here is interesting...if the community was little more than a consequence of the development effort, who was NaN expecting to purchase the Publisher licenses?
The Lurker
17-Mar-02, 00:01
On 2002-03-16 20:04, overextruded wrote:
The irony here is interesting...if the community was little more than a consequence of the development effort, who was NaN expecting to purchase the Publisher licenses?
Those who didn't. how's that for irony
overextrude
17-Mar-02, 04:16
Well, what I was trying to communicate was that on one hand, NaN relegated the community to a rather trivial status, and on the other, expected these very same people people to fork over $300 for a Publisher license. How did NaN expect this to work?
I don't know what let the company fall.
But fact is, that the new versions of Blender Publisher also had improvements in the modeling and rendering engine.
This was an oportunety for all the creator fans (like me) to buy a key.
bug
overextrude
17-Mar-02, 16:17
There were improvements, but certainly not enough to warrant $300 in my humble opinion. This whole thing would make a good case study for an MBA class. If NaN wanted to talk the talk (become a commercial product), it should have been prepared to walk the walk. In other words, mold Blender into a polished, fully-documented, relatively bug-free application...and THEN ask people to fork out $300. Oh- but don't piss everyone off first by telling them that their involvement as a member of the community was never an intended objective.
For those that never read it, here is the original NaN commitment from a while ago:
Commitment
Thanks to the enthusiastic support of Unix/Linux/ FreeBSD users worldwide, Blender has become the popular tool it is now. The current userbase is very important for NaN. That's why I make this promise:
If NaN stops or fails, the sources will be GPL-ed immediately.
Blender won't be sold to another company without guarantees it continues developement within the current open and free strategies.
When NaN becomes a big succes, you can count on me being insane enough to continue what I did last year: choosing what is best for Blender, looking for exciting different ways to proceed and just having a lot of fun!
I dug it up from the archives.org thingie. The link is http://web.archive.org/web/20000510095938/www.blender.nl/blender/commitment.html for those that would like to read the whole thing.
<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Ottmar on 2002-03-20 09:09 ]</font>
SkyWriter
20-Mar-02, 12:34
Technically, _that_ NaN already went out
of business. The NaN that just went out
of business was a different company.
ooh...nice to see the old site :) can't remember if I have ever seen it before :)
hmm...C-key for only 95$ well...if Publisher was at that price or instead(better) a Creatorversion with loaded stuff for Animation/Rendering/Modeling , I would certainly consider buy a C-key ;)
ztonzy
overextrude
20-Mar-02, 13:21
And if everyone will remember, that's exactly what many of us were saying in the forums on the NaN server.
There's a fine line between saying and doing.
SatoriGFX
20-Mar-02, 17:41
On 2002-03-20 12:46, macke wrote:
There's a fine line between saying and doing.
Correct me if I am wrong but:
Wasn't the c-key successfull enough before that NaN was able to make Blender freeware again? I could bewrong, but I thought that the c-key ended because NaN made decent money from it and decided to make Blender completely freeware again.
And I doubt the number of Publisher purchasers was anywhere near the number of c-key purchasers.
I was one of those who "said" he was willing to pay for Creator 2.25. All NaN had to do was say the word and I definitely "would" have coughed up $100.
Anyhow, it's all moot now.
SatoriGFX.
overextrude
20-Mar-02, 18:17
Macke said:
>> There's a fine line between saying and doing.
What do you mean? I purchased the C-Key and the original manual, and I would have probably forked over another $100 IF NaN had been receptive to the idea. It's not really fair to fault US because NaN refused to consider this alternative.
The Lurker
20-Mar-02, 20:20
On 2002-03-20 12:46, macke wrote:
There's a fine line between saying and doing.
We were never given the chance to do. People didn't want to fork out $300 for publisher it wasn't the product we wanted. $100 C-key with development towards the modeling/animation side would have gotten 150x the bites that publisher got. Before you say it was the same thing - it's not and people voted with their pocket book and NaN became defunked because they didn't listen.
In case everyone forgot, there was a survey prior to version 2.04 (or 2.10, not sure), where a good percentage of the community members were in agreement with the gameblender direction taken by NAN.
I think that fact was also mentionned by some NAN officials (I think it was either Joeri or Bart) and it might be why they felt betrayed in a way.
It's only afterward that many people came back crying that it wasn't what THEY wanted...
my 2 cents
Martin
It's only afterward that many people came back crying that it wasn't what THEY wanted...
Actually many users that wanted animation instead of game gev left soon after 2.0 was announced because they saw that development was heading in a direction they didn't like.
And now for the logic part: _If_ you want a good gamedev tool, you _have_ to develop modelling and animation features parallel to it. First you are also modelling for games and the lack of _simple_ poly tools like knife, rotate triangle, normal extrusion, etc doesn't make a good poly modeller. And if someone is serious enough to make a good game with Blender he/she probably ants to make at least a cute 3D intro with it, too.
Also don't tell me that NaN really developed the gameengine part of Blender, because in the last two years it didn't see much improvement.
.xype
DR.MONGOLE
21-Mar-02, 08:56
I dont want any web properties in my blender, i dont want make any exe, i only do 3d animation and movies .Pay 300$ only for NLA is too much for my, i (everyone) will able to pay 100$. I yet buy the book. żbook + 2.25=100$? Its no bad
(robocop english, i'm sorry)
The Lurker
21-Mar-02, 12:39
[/quote]
Also don't tell me that NaN really developed the gameengine part of Blender, because in the last two years it didn't see much improvement.
[/quote]
This is another of NaN's lack of vision. Short sightedness and general lack of a paying direction. Every year there was a another fork in the road with the road leading up to it unfinished.
They should have made a well rounded, Solid modeler/animation/rending tool sold the tool then the could have forked out to a game engine sold that for more revenue. Forked out to the web plug in and publisher sold that to increase revenue then did their mobile fork. Keep the products seperate building on the core technologies. Every one would have had a product they would buy into and NaN would still be around.
NaN tried blackmail us by pushing publisher as their only product. It backfired people didn't buy into publisher and the investors pulled the plug.
overextrude
21-Mar-02, 14:52
>> In case everyone forgot, there was a survey prior to version 2.04 (or 2.10, not sure), where a good percentage of the community members were in agreement with the gameblender direction taken by NAN.
I knew of the survey, but never saw the survey results. I still find it odd, however, that Ton, when justifying NaN's direction in his most recent post on the NaN server, never mentioned anything like, "NaN has chosen this direction because this is what the survey results indicate...". Instead, he mentioned "following his dream." While I certainly don't fault him for taking the latter stance, it has its risks.
luckybreak
21-Mar-02, 17:20
Viva la Dream
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