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View Full Version : Nude and Erotic Art -- Prepare for it... :-|



PhiloVivero
07-Nov-04, 18:54
Let's start with the facts, then move into opinion later. I have created a new website for nude and erotic art created using New Media (preferably 3D-modelled).

http://faemalia.com

The site is different than traditional art sites in that I require artists upload images that could be printed on 6x8/A5 with satisfactory results. (Artists may offer larger prints of their work, perhaps, for a fee)

Additionally, my own art that I post on that site, I post on a second site that I run, where I post the .blend including the mesh and the armature rig used to create the images. That site is here:

http://faemalia.net/Blender

The .blend's are released under the Creative Commons share and share-alike license. (Simply put, you can use these .blend's for whatever not-for-profit venture you might dream up... hopefully collaboration with myself or other 3D artists!)

I am interested in getting the Blender community interested in a certain set of things:

1. Modelling improvements. I won't go into detail here. My Blender section at http://faemalia.net/Blender lists the improvements I wish I could have in Blender's modelling suite. It seems that the codebase refactoring mentioned at the Blender Wiki will solve many of my problems with armatures and meshes (crossing my fingers for 5-gons!).

2. Community sharing. We create .blend's with Blender, this wonderful Free tool, so we let all our .blend's be downloaded Freely (under the Free Creative Commons license). Right? I urge other developers to follow my lead. Face it, no-one's going to come pay you US$20,000 for your .blend that took you two weeks to make. And if they do, having already shared it with the Creative Commons license won't hinder you in such a transaction. So help out the community that helped you by giving you Blender. Let people download your .blend's to learn and/or make cool Free images. It's all about collaboration, people.

3. Improvements in rendering. I do a lot of postprocessing in GIMP to make my images, which makes me sad. I really wish I could just load up the .blend, hit "render" and get a final image I'm satisfied with. I haven't put a lot of thought into exactly what I would recommend as renderer improvements, so I won't detail that now. I'm sure others will reply to this thread to offer better insights than I can give.

Now into the opinion portion of it all.

Pornographic: The whole point of the image is sex. The pose may be ugly. The model may be ugly. But you can see genitals, and that's really the point. I can find no shred of evidence that says those who like pornography are bad people. Nor can I find a shred of evidence that shows pornography is harmful. Still, I do not like pornography, and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth, so I will not accept pornographic images on my site. Just my opinion.

Erotic: I guess on the surface, this is the same as pornographic, but far less explicit. The pose must be well-thought-out. The model must be depicted in a pleasing way. Sometimes you will see genitalia in full view, or sexual intercourse, but it really isn't the point. I like erotic images. I will accept them on my site.

Nude: Well, this one is more cut and dry. People without clothes. Or perhaps where their clothes don't obscure parts normally obscured. Often times (as in the images I've made thus far) they are not erotic or pornographic. They're just nude people doing regular things.

The faemalia.com site requires artwork that is honest, nonviolent, and wholesome. I do not allow pornography (this is an objective statement). I do allow eroticism (again, objective). And I require nudity, for it is beautiful, natural, and wholesome.

Some say that faemalia.com features art that really isn't erotic. That is true -- for now. But I know for a fact that eventually erotic artists will submit their work to the site. This is not bad, and does not hurt anyone.

Some say my images appear to depict girls under 18 years of age (12 seems to be a popular number). This at first confused me, until I realised that nude art nearly always depicts females with inhumanly large breasts. My models, on the other hand, are anatomically correct. Also my models have the dancer physique (thin and muscular). In these fast-food times, people over the age of 16 generally get fat. This fact adds to the impression that my models depict girls under 18 years of age. Simply compare my models' proportions to well-known and published bodily proportions. The only conclusion you can come to is they're well into their adult years. I find the adult female body more aesthetically pleasing than the child female body.

That said, I'm unconvinced nude art depicting children is bad. I'm over a third of a century old now, and I've not heard a single fact that tells me it is. (And yes, I've read those pseudoscientific "studies" that attempt to show child nudity, adult nudity, pornography, erotic art, etc is harmful to people of various ages and genders -- applying the scientific method isn't that hard, yet these people fail it every time).

Naturally child pornography (or child eroticism) is harmful to the children that have been forced to perform acts unnatural to their bodies. This is a different matter than simple nudity, however.

So there you have it. Please, if you're interested in contributing to nude and erotic art for the 21st century, begin creating it. Share your knowledge. Make the world a better place. Start now, start here.

Sutabi
07-Nov-04, 20:54
I have nothing wrong with nude art... As long as it shows artistic values And not some lil girl grabbing her big breasts....

Its sad to see Make Human use by porno sites inplace of poser.... I cant remeber which user it was that did that crap... all i know is that it pissed me off

Kansas_15
07-Nov-04, 21:05
I'm againsd this kind of stuff but smart enough to avoid the signs. But someone should ban this guy before he wrecks the place like he did with the blender.org forums and before he completely destroys Blender's reputation as a friendly program where people make nice images.

He's a threat to the CG industry. See you in jail.

[case closed]

zbgump
07-Nov-04, 21:26
Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see the big deal. I looked through the images and none seem at all pornographic; I don't think they seem very erotic either but I suppose thats relative. They look like poses of nude woman.


I hardly think this is anything to be worried about or censored.

Ecks
07-Nov-04, 21:37
Maybe I'm missing something but I don't see the big deal. I looked through the images and none seem at all pornographic; I don't think they seem very erotic either but I suppose thats relative. They look like poses of nude woman.


I hardly think this is anything to be worried about or censored.

I don't think they are talking about this particular guy...they are talking about another case that hapenned on the blender gallery at centralsource..anyway

robdollar
07-Nov-04, 22:03
I think there are much better portrayals of nudes in art, 3d and otherwise, and while its a valid form if art, there's no need for prominant and misplaced genatalia.

It certainly doesn't offend me, but although it is easy for people who are offended by this type of material to simply not click the link, these particular images are, in my opinion, not suited to this forum.

shawnsonium
07-Nov-04, 22:29
He's a threat to the CG industry.

Wow, the whole industry? Lots of CG artists make nude art with all sorts of 3D and 2D art programs. You cannot threaten the CG industry by making graphics that some might find offensive. People would attack the artist, not the entire industry. It's like if Dairy Queen served shit-flavoured ice cream. Dairy Queen would be in trouble, the food industry wouldn't.

Also, everything made in Blender was not made by Blender, but by the artist using it. Anybody who thinks that Blender is a "dirty" program because somebody made nude art with it must be a total retard. Come to think of it, nobody thinks that way except you.

Kansas_15
07-Nov-04, 23:12
If dairy queen made that kind of ice cream I would sue them to the supreme court.

And sure it's true with other apps so many other people use it that it doesn't really dent it's rep. But Blender has fewer users and getting a whole site devoted to this kind of stuff and as far I can tell it already has a higher ratio of erotic art to normal art then many other 3D software programs.

valarking
08-Nov-04, 00:31
If dairy queen made that kind of ice cream I would sue them to the supreme court.


WTF??!!



And sure it's true with other apps so many other people use it that it doesn't really dent it's rep. But Blender has fewer users and getting a whole site devoted to this kind of stuff and as far I can tell it already has a higher ratio of erotic art to normal art then many other 3D software programs

Not everyone feels so negatively about it as you do.

Alltaken
08-Nov-04, 01:44
If dairy queen made that kind of ice cream I would sue them to the supreme court.

try growing up, and having sex.

there is a very small chance you might actually find you enjoy it.


p.s. i havn't looked at the link, and i don't really intend to. but i don't have a problem with it. i mean the powermuff girls were pushing my moral boundaries (anyone still got the pic of that please send it LOL) but still i don't find erotic art very appealing personally, but hey go for it everyone else.

Alltaken

MrNightmare
08-Nov-04, 03:23
PhiloVivero. very good models. I am making a wild guess here....but it looks as if you used Rokkaku-Daioh4 .

Sago
08-Nov-04, 04:20
1. I am not offended by your work (well, maybe only cause their not doing anything naughty %| )

2. I do not think those persons look like children (more like Japanese women).

3. I am not really impressed by your work, mainly because of the light, colors and shadows.

About the nude:
there will be people who will not understand it, and therefore reject it. Like nudism many people live like it, and many others think it is sick or just stupid. I personally have no problem if people want to be naked or want to show it (just don't expect me to sit where a nudist just sat). As I don't have a problem with your work, it's also not something I would use as a desktop-image (yet).

About the image-quality:
I think there are some things you can do that will change the outcome after rendering. Like I said, I don't really like the light, colors and shadows. So look into using other lights with different settings, try to work with Ambient Oclussion and Yafray. I'm sure you can find some settings that can satisfy your needs.

Sago

sundialsvc4
08-Nov-04, 07:48
I've seen books on CG (female, always female) nudes at the nicest bookstores in the most conservative Southern Baptist (US) cities. The same places where, if you know where to look, you'll find well-thumbed fetish books like "Butts," and even "Toes." :o

(We're talkin' Barnes and Noble here! You can see two churches from the parking lot!)

But the human body, in both flavors, is a beautiful thing, and it's very hard to create real beauty in any media. Fetish-pictures are easy. And I basically agree with the sentiment that, in that case, you would be far better off to find a real woman and get to know her ... first, as a friend. You might find your helpmate.

To create a really beautiful picture of a human being, you have to connect to his/her personality, not simply his/her genitals. You can't be, how shall I say this, afraid of him/her. And frankly I don't see too much good stuff out there. Playboy and Penthouse make a good industry out of what they do, but eventually (believe it or not...) everyone does get tired of wickin' off (ahem...) to a book in the bathroom.

If you're going to do an erotic/nude site, also include males. No, I'm not talking about for gays... but humans are beautiful in all types. Try, as a man, to create a beautiful rendering of a male nude. The Greeks did it and put them up in public places all over the city. Did some nice ones, too. Make something that men and women who are interested in the subject would not only visit, but find challenging and tasteful. If you work within your own gender, presumably you don't feel the hot pull of your gonads %| and you can focus more on the art. On the person.

Finally... mystery is part of beauty. It's like the difference between cheap beer and fine wine. Eventually you want more than just a quick buzz.

Kansas_15
08-Nov-04, 08:38
If dairy queen made that kind of ice cream I would sue them to the supreme court.


WTF??!!



And sure it's true with other apps so many other people use it that it doesn't really dent it's rep. But Blender has fewer users and getting a whole site devoted to this kind of stuff and as far I can tell it already has a higher ratio of erotic art to normal art then many other 3D software programs

Not everyone feels so negatively about it as you do.

Plus he's also abusing those in the groups which he describes as I read farther, this man is so sick to his head that he should either go to rehab or accept a life sentence in prison or until he chooses rehab.
Not to mention is damages Blender yet farther, the last thing it needs is for it to be controversial.

Sago
08-Nov-04, 08:41
If you're going to do an erotic/nude site, also include males.
Good point... then there would be no questions about your motivations.

whatever
08-Nov-04, 08:52
There are no questions about his motivations.
And they are not Art, or Blender development.
They are porno and sex. Preferably with young woman. As young as he can get. Or as young looking as he can get away with.

This community (or modarators) has to decide if thats okay or not, but please do not pretend that's not what this is about.

Dani
08-Nov-04, 09:32
oh well... if people have problems with the human body in all its glory (or not entirely) then why don't they just move on. My point is: nobody is forcing them to LOOK at nude or whatever, so those people will not FORCE ANYONE to follow their beliefs!

I think the human body is beautiful... but then again, nature is beautiful, plants and animals too,.. society too, it's beautiful in its awful complexity (otherwise, I tend to dislike it)... I like blue, I hate yellow, yellow makes me dizzy (but I won't forbid the use of yellow in pictures ;) )

this morning i ate an apple... I like apples don't you? I don't like boiled eggs... they make me nauseous.... but who cares?

Dani

mifune
08-Nov-04, 09:51
i dont think its bad to make renders of nude women but dont post it where young people are. some cant handle it.

whatever
08-Nov-04, 10:27
I don't think child abuse is quite the same as eating an apple.
Leaves the question if linking to child pornography is done or not done.
I think it should not be done.

Then there is the question if the images on PhiloVivero's site are child pornography, some say it is, some say it's not. I'm not sure, I think it is, but I'm not sure. Who am I to judge? (unlike PhiloVivero who seem to know the truth to everything).

Just ignore the posts?
Why not have an X-rated button on the post. And personal favours can have a "don't show X-rated stuff" setting.

BrilliantApe
08-Nov-04, 10:35
There are no questions about his motivations.
And they are not Art, or Blender development.
They are porno and sex. Preferably with young woman. As young as he can get. Or as young looking as he can get away with.

Sorry, now I'm getting pissed off :x I don't care if some of you find nudity offensive, that's your prerogative, but now you're subject to libel, half insinuating that philovivero is a paedophile. How you you can read that into those pictures is beyond me. They're clearly not underage body structures at all. Philovivero most likely used a reference of an asian female body, and they are different from European women, in that they are more slender and usually have smaller breasts. That is not underage.

And Kansas, I've been defending you from time to time, but it really is true - YOU ARE A NUTCASE!!! If you continue repressing your sexuality, you're going to end up like certain catholic priests, and abuse little boys, instead of having a healthy relationship with a woman :<

I don't usually get this upset, but damn it if I'm going to let this go. Go sit in the corner!

whatever
08-Nov-04, 10:38
Hahaha, so what, anything goes, right?

-Edit-
Stick to what you read.

- Where did I say I find nudity offensive?
- You obviously haven't seen much asian porn.
... Asian woman are full of pubic hair, if PhiloVivero was depicting asians, where is that hair?
- It's not nudity, it's "erotic". It's meant to arouse you. These are not my words, they are PhiloVivero words.
- 1+1=2, wake up!


You go sit in the corner.

-crap I turned into forum groupy-

Dani
08-Nov-04, 11:18
Whatever?

I don't think child abuse is quite the same as eating an apple.
hum... sillyness cannot be your only weapon? You stumbled on the most unsignificant part of the message! So of course, the rest: you didn't get it. come on!

Indeed, as you say, who are you to say what Philovero's intentions are? Only he can tell that! (and some would object : a court too... yeah sure, but one individual is not a court)

And to those who think that philovero's nude work damages blender's image, then fire up your Blender and start the battle! puritan (sorry for this strong word) art vs free art... stop bitching and be creative!

Don't you see that people are smart enough to choose what they want to see? To know what they like? to have their own advice and to judge of what they see. Do not FORCE your personnal point of view on other people.

So if artists (whoever) create Nude or Non-Nude, if the creation is art (art's definition varies from one person to another, so it's useless to debate about that) (understand "if someone judges the picture as beautiful") then the creation gets a place to live... if nobody likes it, then too bad for the artist. The success (the life) of a creation is determined by the spectators who are at least as intelligent as you are.

Now, for the child protection... well, watch you kids! Nor a website, nor an artist can be resposible of the education your kids get. It's determined by what you allow them to do and how you make them not do what you don't want them to do.

Now it's time for some good old geology...

Dani...
... and by the way: if you're soft-hearted, then do not go to those evil places with lots of dirty stuff: Art Museums...

...and by the way n 2 : I actually don't give a damn about what becomes of philovero's work... I mean: I lived well before it came up, and it doesn't affect my life. I simply don't have much time for surfing .., and I wasted too much time in this thread too... so why am i posting this? oh well, I might be silly or masochist, asking for flames or anything... take care ;)

BrilliantApe
08-Nov-04, 11:31
Where did I say I find nudity offensive?

Read again. I said that I don't mind if you do find nudity offensive, that's your right. I didn't say you do.


You obviously haven't seen much asian porn.
... Asian woman are full of pubic hair, if PhiloVivero was depicting asians, where is that hair? "

And you have then? Who's the perv here %| So no pubic hair denotes underage? Then every female in those pesky american porns are underage - or they shave. Your choice.


It's not nudity, it's "erotic". It's meant to arouse you. These are not my words, they are PhiloVivero words.
I'm fully capable of comprehending the full meaning of the word. That's not what we are discussing here. However, to be picky, nudity usually goes along with the erotic part ;)


1+1=2, wake up!
I'm wide awake.

MrNightmare
08-Nov-04, 11:36
PhiloVivero. by the ____way. welcome to the Blender community %|
where nude figures start flamewars.

I am not sure if I should agree or disagree with mifune, who said

i dont think its bad to make renders of nude women but dont post it where young people are. some cant handle it.

i will say that the majority of this community is very young .maybe most of them cannot handle nude art. but still I am surprised that the idea of "child pornography" is even coming into play here.
your profile states that one of your interests is nude art. and I don't see how any of your works could be interpreted as anything else but just that.

by posting these fully rigged characters free for others to use . well :D
I am sure that there are those who will use these models to depict what could be considerred by some to be less than desirable acts. I, myself, am tempted to add a few props and do a quick render , only to fuel this fire, but I will resist. only because... if this was meant to be a discussion on the morality of pornography, the people of this community HAVE to give you credit for the fact that if you WANTED your characters engaging in "acts of sexual nature" it would not be beyond your skills.

I am also a fan of nude art, but also eroticism and hardcore pornography.
distinctions can be made between all three, but only that is left in the mind of the viewer.

Fweeb
08-Nov-04, 12:45
FWIW...
keyword != nude;
keyword = erotic

models = child_like

models + keyword = trouble

BrilliantApe
08-Nov-04, 13:05
keyword = not_relevant
models = women_of_slender_build

models + keyword = nude_women_doesnt_mean_the_apocalypse_is_coming

aniasis
08-Nov-04, 13:07
This guy is a pervert! Those models look barely 14 years of age!

Timothy
08-Nov-04, 18:04
I've looked at a I think most of the images on the site and I can't really say wether they are of underaged girls or not. I guess if you don't really texture a model and indeed give it a slender body with small breasts a model can soon look young, though not nessicarily intended that way.

I don't really see a huge threat in this posting for either elYsiun, Blender or the 'CG industry'. But it is turning off-topic, and this is another one of those discussions that can go on forever but will never have a winner. So I'm locking this thread.

On elYsiun we then basically stated that __art__ featuring nudity aslong as it's not explicit (spread vagina, hard penis, sexual contact) would be allowed. I think this post falls in a grey area, don't really know what to do about it, though right now I've chosen to lock the thread because it's becomming off-topic.
I do think that whatever's comment about the possible 'x rated' option is worth looking into.

Greets,
Timothy