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off-topic Chat
Chat about anything you want
Obviously not true.
So I would like a clear written statement about what we can and can’t talk about now that we have been forbidden to talk about evolution.
I would also like to know how long a topic can be discussed.
Or are the closing of threads done when the moderators just feel its "time" to do so?
haunt_house
04-Jul-02, 05:52
good question :-?
Jolly Gnome
04-Jul-02, 06:06
I also would like to know the answer...
IMO, this area shouldn't be controlled so tightly, as long as nothing illegal is involved. Let the people rant!
scratchy7
04-Jul-02, 07:00
Censorship?.........
Hmmmm
Well, it WAS going downhill on that thread.
But its SO damn frustrating after taking the time to try to explain some things and provide good links for people to read - only for them to be completely ignored and people that I was trying to help continuing to say the same old thing..."Its random I tell you - its random!!"
Censorship?.........
Hmmmm
Well, it WAS going downhill on that thread.
But its SO damn frustrating after taking the time to try to explain some things and provide good links for people to read - only for them to be completely ignored and people that I was trying to help continuing to say the same old thing..."Its random I tell you - its random!!"
I am reading them. (im not the one on the "wrong" side though :) )
Finished reading "Introduction to evolutionary biology"(36 page printout) yesterday.
Going on with transitional fossils now.
ok,
Well basicly I don't mind any discussion on any subject aslong as it doesn't either:
a) break the law
b) is offensive of nature
The reason theeth closed the thread is because it was going nowhere (12 pages of yes / no discussion), and we've seen before that these threads can be quite offensive on a personal level.
I hope this clears something up.
The same rules basicly apply all over the forum:
1. Don't be offensive
2. Don't break the law
3. Post in the correct forum
There are some other small issues like not having images in the signature etc (I may let the php code handle this,.. but am not sure about the viability of that yet).
Greetings,
Timothy
p.s. I may have forgotten to tell something,.. but I'm sure you can tell on your own judgement what can and what can't be done.
Then why not delete the offensive posts instead of the topic?
imho collective punishment is not a good thing.
off-topic Chat
Chat about anything you want
Obviously not true.
it depends on the way you look at it. You can chat about anything you want, but you should still stay polite and repest each others opinion. I don't think it can be called chatting if it involves name calling and disrespect.
So I would like a clear written statement about what we can and can’t talk about now that we have been forbidden to talk about evolution.
Maybe I don't express myself clearly, sorry for that. I only meant to say that the "evolution vs creation" topic of discus should probably be left aside for a while, to let the dust settle down. I think that if we start again on that topic so soon after the other, people will probably just continue the name calling.
It has nothing to do with how much page is written, as long as it is still a nice conversation.
"Play, but play nicely."
Martin
PS: believe me, I enjoyed the conversation while it lasted. It was very informative for the most part, but was going downhill at the end.
scratchy7
04-Jul-02, 09:05
The very first post on the Evolution thread was incredibly offensive to me and probably millions more if they ever read those words. The continual 'burying the head in the sand' of some in the progression of that thread was likewise offensive. Those same people obviously were also offended at me and a few others pointing out that they were wrong
My point is
Rule #1 - 'don't be offensive' is a VERY difficult to measure. How do you go about that?
The very first post on the Evolution thread was incredibly offensive to me and probably millions more if they ever read those words. The continual 'burying the head in the sand' of some in the progression of that thread was likewise offensive. Those same people obviously were also offended at me and a few others pointing out that they were wrong
My point is
Rule #1 - 'don't be offensive' is a VERY difficult to measure. How do you go about that?
Saying "milk is good" can be offensive.
So.. basicly anything can be offensive.
I think We need to lay down some ground rules about what is and is not offensive so we can refer to this thread if it happens in the future.
haunt_house
04-Jul-02, 09:14
Ok Martin
how about this:
let it locked for a week or ten days...
then unlock it
and put a nice easy readable( yes, that way) post there with your wishes to the tone of the next posts.
I hope my beating smilies weren´t offensive?
Maybe I´ll start a flamewar of a special kind soon. (but not with rude words :D :D ;) )
wicked Haunt_House
P.S.:MILK IS GOOD!
oh, almost forgot:
ANYTHING
I have no problem with arguing for the sake of arguing, but it does seem like some of the vitriol WAS getting pretty harsh. In my opinion, discussions about politics, religion, and evolution vs. creationism will never conclude satisfactorily because everyone's positions are so hardened and passionate. Nobody is going to cave in and say "You got me. I think I will have to change my entire view of the world." It's just not going to happen. This fact may be subjective, but I believe it is what is responsible for the atmosphere at the tail end of those threads.
How could that (insert favorite insult here) not see my point, It's so damn straightforward? He/She has to be some kind of bleeping bleep bleep.
Repeat argument with some variation.
Repeat insult.
Repeat argument with some variation.
etc, etc, etc.
About censorship: Kib or any of the moderators can stop a thread whenever they want for the reasons they outlined in the site rules. I think have shown a lot of patience and have applied the standard liberally. We should thank them for doing so.
""""""""""""""""""""""""
About censorship: Kib or any of the moderators can stop a thread whenever they want for the reasons they outlined in the site rules. I think have shown a lot of patience and have applied the standard liberally. We should thank them for doing so.
""""""""""""""""""""""""
Sure. I agree with that completly. but I wanted to know more specificly what is allowed and not.
Having the thread stopp suddenly was not something that I liked.
haunt_house
04-Jul-02, 09:27
yep, a warning would have looked incredibly respectful.
HH
Green,
I think if the insults become unsubtle and oft repeated, the moderators have the right to step in. Maybe a strong warning next time (only one) would help.
Most people can tell if insults are just in good fun (the language skills on this forum are uniformly excellent), like some of those on the recent football threads, but when they start getting nasty, what's the point?
theeth wrote:
Don't think that I'm doing this to end the debate, no one is winning, no one is loosing.
You just won :P
scratchy7
04-Jul-02, 09:33
A warning would not have stopped that last exchange. I was venting my extreme frustration at being stonewalled, and by not getting a straight answer. Not a good thing from me.
I now believe to stop the thread was probably the right think to do given no other way to reign in the emotion(s).
Another alternative would have been better, but then what is it? I can't think of any.
haunt_house
04-Jul-02, 09:38
If you ask me, Joe is one of the best possibilities to practice self control.
Such things are always a doublesided relationship.
Spock, please guide me.
HH
Having the thread stopp suddenly was not something that I liked.
yep, a warning would have looked incredibly respectful.
when I see that all the "not nice stuff" is coming from one person in the thread, I usually warn them either by PM or directly on the forum (like I did in the Minority thread).
I only close thread when I think this is the only solution that will work.
Martin
haunt_house
04-Jul-02, 10:06
sometimes a public warning has more power :D
P.S.:MILK IS GOOD!
oh, almost forgot:
ANYTHING
BWRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARG!!
yikes! it's contagious
sometimes a public warning has more power :D
yes and no. Some people might appreciate the discretion of a PM warning.
Martin
Dittohead
04-Jul-02, 11:15
Come on Green, are you really serious?
Did you even read theeth's closing post?
We can't talk about evolution anymore? Man I wanted to do that more :P .
JK
Pooba
Come on Green, are you really serious?
Did you even read theeth's closing post?
Its very rare that I am ever really serious about anything on the web. this is no exeption.
still what I wrote is what I see as true.
I thought the thread was very entertaining to read. So therefore I didnt like to see it close. I think I see theeth's point of view now. I dont completly agree with it becouse I think that people should be corrected. Not topics.
But I allso think that greater care will be taken next time this happens.
So.. its not such big deal.
Why did Skywriter get banned ?
Did he cross the lines?
cheers
wp
I think We need to lay down some ground rules about what is and is not offensive so we can refer to this thread if it happens in the future.
I'll try to discuss that with the other moderator.
Martin
Why did Skywriter get banned ?
/me lifts his hand in the air
I didn't do it :P
As far as I know, only Kib as the power to ban people. Maybe Sky could e-mail him, maybe it's just an IP problem or something (or maybe Elysiun bans automaticly everyone using Netscape 4 :P )
Martin
MILK IS BAD!!!!! :)
p.s.
SkyWriter knows why he got banned, and I explained it quite clearly to him and several other people. If you really want to know ask me on irc and I'll show you some logs / mails etc but I won't post these in public.
powertrip
04-Jul-02, 12:10
MILK IS BAD!!!!! :)
p.s.
SkyWriter knows why he got banned, and I explained it quite clearly to him and several other people. If you really want to know ask me on irc and I'll show you some logs / mails etc but I won't post these in public.
What kind of doubletalk is that? When you show private messages
to people, that is making it public. Make it public then. Unless
you're ashamed of your own actions.
You banned SkyWriter without any warning, who's next?
probably me, heh?
MILK IS BAD!!!!! :)
p.s.
SkyWriter knows why he got banned, and I explained it quite clearly to him and several other people. If you really want to know ask me on irc and I'll show you some logs / mails etc but I won't post these in public.
What kind of doubletalk is that? When you show private messages
to people, that is making it public. Make it public then. Unless
you're ashamed of your own actions.
You banned SkyWriter without any warning, who's next?
probably me, heh?
I wouldnt mind if you got banned
You banned SkyWriter without any warning, who's next?
OK, now I'm really confused. Wasn't he warned several times on previous threads to cease and desist? Not only by the moderators, but also by numerous other members of the community.
I think that Kib's rules for posting here are not meant to judge others, but for everyone to judge their own postings.
There's a clear difference in a posting that has the sole intention of insulting others, or a posting that expresses an opinion that might insult others. The latter is part of freedom of speech.
The best you can celebrate that freedom is by being as respectful to other people as possible, allowing others to exist on this planet as well, with their different cultural background, different religious beliefs or different opinions on science.
My wording for Kib's rule number one was (on blender.nl):
Don't intentionally harm or insult others personally.
This one is still difficult to manage, but at least it looks at the motivation of someone posting. If this expresses an opinion or honest emotion, or is a contribution to a discussion, then it's OK. However repulsive you might think it is.
In general is very difficult to show respect to abstractions as 'religion' or 'science' or 'racism'. However, it is very easy to show respect to a 'christian' or an 'evolutionist' and even to a 'racist', by just treating the person as a fellow human being.
-Ton-
amen to that Ton :)
Martin
haunt_house
04-Jul-02, 16:45
yes and no. Some people might appreciate the discretion of a PM warning.
agreed, but if they do not act accordingly, a light slam with the cricket bat could be in order.
MILK IS BAD!!!!
OH, what an insult. I got a heart attack, when I read this(my second!). I´ll never forgive him for that. My personal feelings are hurt. He did it on purpose, I'm sure. He wants me to have a premature death!
!!!!!!!BAN HIM!!!!!!!!!!
er.......ooops? :o
HH
haha perhaps I should start another why milk is bad for you, and why it probably has caused the deaths of millions of people world wide (or atleast helped to accelerate it). Give me some time to do some more research into this and actually gather up some scientific documentation to underbuild my statements concerning milk.
To give you a little teaser:
1. Death cause number one in 3rd world countries: dehydration due to diarea
2. 90%+ of people in 3rd world countries are allergic to milk
3. a sign of a milk allergy is diarea
4. 1st world countries ship milk powder as a form of aid to 3rd world countries.
Now I am not stating that milk is the death cause number 1 in 3rd world countries Not at all actually,.. but I do think this is a slighly ironic (is this the right word?) set of facts. (p.s. some aid orginisations are now starting to realize this and have stopped providing milk)
Anyways about the SkyWriter case, it's something more personal between me and him. And basicly I've been fed up with his behaviour especially towards me for some time now. A few days ago a event happened which was the last straw for me, and this brought me to banning him. I explained this to him, but he doesn't agree with me.
But don't worry,.. I don't have any of these things with other Blender users, besides perhaps Green :). And it's surtainly not that I randomly ban people, infact I try to avoid this as much as I can. (sofar only 2
people have been banned). Now the reason why I don't want to post the logs / e-mails in a public chat is simply because more people than just me were involved and I have to respect their privacy aswell. Now I am willing to explain this to wp for the simpe reason that he is more closely related to this than most other people.
Now asfar as the hefty discussion post goes. My strategy is usually to let it go for a few pages. Because basicly the people joining in on that discussion are probably the only people actually interested in a discussion like that on a forum (I myself like these things in a chatbox much more :)). But somtimes these discussions can go a bit overboard and should be fought out in private instead of on a public forum. The same way you don't get too deep into philosofical discussions on for instance something like a birthday party.
Pff,.. this was quite a type for me escpecially since I just came back from a long hard day of work and a nice dinner with the family. So please don't be offended by the spelling mistakes which I know I must have made quite a few of.
If you have any questions don't hesitate to ask.
Greetings,
Timothy
haunt_house
04-Jul-02, 18:02
You are not only insulting me...
you insult THE COMPLETE MILK INDUSTRY!!
This is what you wanted, this is what you now get
milkmen of all nations!
unite!
have your sour milk grenades at hand!
kib has started
MILK WARS
Dittohead
04-Jul-02, 18:03
You are now entering the 'Spin Zone'
:o :-? :x :(
:P
Kib: If you are banning SkyWriter for
the reasons that I think you are, then
I personally think you are being unduly
harsh.
Regards,
Chris
Hos: you might want to read this, it's very funny and instructive: http://www.elysiun.com/search.php?search_author=SkyWriter
not that it gives any reason to bane him, but rather a general trend in some of his posts.
Martin
PS: btw, I don't think the reason that you're thinking of is the sole reason. Then again, I don't know what you're thinking about, so you might want to talk to Kib directly ;)
Oh, okay, I remember skywriter now, I was confusing him with the X10 guy, or didn't he come back as skyracer or something of the sort?
no, SkyRacer was the other nickname of X10 (who is one of the other banished, if I may say so).
I believe SkyWriter would be rather insulted if you didn't remember him from all the anti-linux post he did.
Martin
But that's all people like that are looking for, attention through notoriety.
Joecool: that might be why some people are afraid of water ;)
Martin
valarking
26-Sep-02, 21:39
Let's see where this goes. BUUUMP.
IMProvisar
27-Sep-02, 08:31
STOP THAT, DAMNIT!!!
P.S. - any way for you admin types to suspend Valarking's ability to post for a day or two? Get him to knock it off?
Imp
Timonides
27-Sep-02, 12:27
valarking before I start a poll on, wether you should be permanently closed into an asylum or not.....
Please could you give us a good reason why you're doing this?????
(This is so annoying, no it isn't, yes it is, no, yes.......NNOOOO, YEEESSSS.... Ooohhh, Sh*t you got me confused again!!!!!!)
skontar.
haunt_house
27-Sep-02, 15:49
Skontar: have mercy. Valarking's smiley surely has learned its habits from someone. If you want to take a guess...
pockpockpockpockpockpockpock. (maybe some kind of selfpunishment to keep religious? Pain and discontentment are good tools to foster the belief in supernatural beings! Look at me. I hear today's music and keep believing in Queen and Billy Joel)
But I honestly think that the discussions here are rather pointless. Instead of working together to find new reliable data, they flame each other to death. fighting fighting fighting booooooring. Sometimes I am happy to join in, but often not for serious reasons.
By the way, I won't post too much here at the moment, as well as I won't chat anymore. I realize that time is something precious. I have targets to reach and ranting against superior christians wont help me with that. A high postcount doesn´t either.
Valarking, please repent. Do not burn in Hell, pleeeeease!!!!!
I am on my knees begging!
Haunt_House
Timonides
27-Sep-02, 16:22
I honestly think that the discussions here are rather pointless. Instead of working together to find new reliable data,...........
...............something precious. I have targets to reach and ranting against superior christians wont help me with that. A high postcount doesn´t either.
Well, I think you've got a point there......... ;)
.........................................
Valarking, please repent. Do not burn in Hell, pleeeeease!!!!!
I am on my knees begging!
Haunt_House
Yes valarking, there is still hope. Save your soul while you still got time!!!
Pleeeeaaassseeee REPENT!!!!!!!.
skontar.
valarking
27-Sep-02, 18:49
pockpockpockpockpockpockpock. (maybe some kind of selfpunishment to keep religious? Pain and discontentment are good tools to foster the belief in supernatural beings! Look at me. I hear today's music and keep believing in Queen and Billy Joel)
Billy Joel kicks ass. He's my favorite song artist.
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